(01-22-2021, 07:00 AM)fChk Wrote: [ -> ]My major point here is that vaccination is a kind of a 'voodoo science' because, although we know a great deal of things on our immune system processes nowadays at the cellular and molecular levels, we still lack a lot, especially at the holistic(/organism) level. Things that require multi-disciplinary competence that will explain why certain persons react adequately(/optimal response) to vaccine while others don't(/sub-optimal response) and while others over-react(/aggressive response) leading to adverse reactions leading to auto-immune diseases.. etc...
Thanks for your feedback
as it made things much clearer to me. Possibly also the vaccines were not completely tested yet and to a certain extent these massive vaccine inocculations are still "in trial and test mode". So if it doesn't take, then the person can be infectious, and the sad thing of course is one will never really know whether one is clean of the virus with the vaccine. Unless one continues to be tested. And even with some tests, one test is never enough.
Last night my cousin, who is an ophthalmologist told me that a few months back five of his staff got the virus simultaneously, but very light. They started with sniffles, and lost their sense of smell. He then got every one in his business tested, and five tested positively. Not sure how true this is, but he is convinced that because of the precautions that were taken with face masks and social distancing it could be that they had been subjected to a very light viral load. Do you think this can be true? The lighter the viral load the lighter the degree of infection? For him all of them had the virus light and recovered fast. They had to go into self-quarantine of course, but recovered fast without need for hospitalization. Do you think they will be needing the vaccine as well though?
Like other countries, South Africa will innoculate their health workers first and vaccines will start to arrive in February. My cousin will be checking the different sources of vaccine though before his staff are innoculated as the available sources of vaccine are not all equal in their results. Sounds as though one still will have a choice of choosing to have the vaccine, vs compelled to do this. I also received something similar from my Medical Insurance in a notification e-mail. That they are investigating the best source of vaccine and will let us know. The source they recommend will be covered by the insurance for free. Wonder what kind of corruption and inequality of vaccine and patients that will lead to? Definitely interesting times.
(01-23-2021, 05:46 AM)deanhills Wrote: [ -> ] Possibly also the vaccines were not completely tested yet and to a certain extent these massive vaccine inocculations are still "in trial and test mode". So if it doesn't take, then the person can be infectious, and the sad thing of course is one will never really know whether one is clean of the virus with the vaccine. Unless one continues to be tested. And even with some tests, one test is never enough.
In my previous post, I was speaking in general terms but, yes, for COVID-19's vaccines, none of the currently advertised brands are officially approved by the WHO. The 2 US-made mRNA-based vaccines are approved by their local institutions (CDC, NIH etc..) under their emergency Act and they both passed the 3rd phase of their clinical-trials with an advertized 95% efficacy score. So is the Russian Sputnik V vaccine which is an adenovirus-based vector vaccine (technically similar to the one from Oxford-AstraZeneca.) The Russians did deploy their own vaccine -which was the first on the market- under the same emergency rule. The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is at its final stage, as they are manufacturing it in India and should be distributed worldwide to the countries seeking to purchase it.
The advantage of the adenovirus-based vector vaccine is that it doesn't require the highly low temperatures for preservation (5°C instead of -70°C for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for example) making it safer for distributions in 3rd-World countries. Also, there is the cost 3$ a shot instead of 50$ for either Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna ones.
Simply put, there is a risk -for a small portion of those who will take anyone of those- but it's a race against time and the imperative thing here is to stop the spread, ie reach the herd immunity threashold.
(01-23-2021, 05:46 AM)deanhills Wrote: [ -> ]Last night my cousin, who is an ophthalmologist told me that a few months back five of his staff got the virus simultaneously, but very light. They started with sniffles, and lost their sense of smell. He then got every one in his business tested, and five tested positively. Not sure how true this is, but he is convinced that because of the precautions that were taken with face masks and social distancing it could be that they had been subjected to a very light viral load. Do you think this can be true? The lighter the viral load the lighter the degree of infection? For him all of them had the virus light and recovered fast. They had to go into self-quarantine of course, but recovered fast without need for hospitalization. Do you think they will be needing the vaccine as well though?
There is a problem with the PCR testing if one doesn't pay attention at the used CT (Cycle Threshold.) High CT values (+30) have a high probability of been a false-positive case.
Please read this article:
>
For The First Time, A US State Will Require Disclosure Of PCR 'Cycle Threshold' Data In COVID Tests
But more importantly watch this video from a virologist who got tested positive only to find out that's a false-positive:
(01-21-2021, 10:46 PM)deanhills Wrote: [ -> ]On top of this I've also heard that scientists aren't sure whether those who have taken the vaccines and are protected, can't infect others while the vaccine is creating anti-bodies that fight the virus. While they have the virus, and may be protected by the virus, they can still infect others. Hence maybe why infections are still increasing.......
If this is the case, then even after taking the vaccines, people will still have to wear masks, and we still need social distancing etc.
So, the vaccines are not as effective as people originally expected.
Because many people still expected that everything could go back to normal later this year.
(01-23-2021, 05:46 AM)deanhills Wrote: [ -> ]Last night my cousin, who is an ophthalmologist told me that a few months back five of his staff got the virus simultaneously, but very light. They started with sniffles, and lost their sense of smell. He then got every one in his business tested, and five tested positively. Not sure how true this is, but he is convinced that because of the precautions that were taken with face masks and social distancing it could be that they had been subjected to a very light viral load. Do you think this can be true? The lighter the viral load the lighter the degree of infection? For him all of them had the virus light and recovered fast. They had to go into self-quarantine of course, but recovered fast without need for hospitalization. Do you think they will be needing the vaccine as well though?
While I was reacting to the above quote in my previous post--where I was trying to cast a doubt on the possibility of the test result being a false-positive, I did forget to answer the last question:
(01-23-2021, 05:46 AM)deanhills Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think they will be needing the vaccine as well though?
I personally think yes they should get vaccinated too. Vaccination is all about reinforcing the defences against a specific target/pathogen. But because I don't have an MD, I will let someone more qualified to say it for me. Thus please watch the video below (COVID-19 clinical update #46), where Dr Daniel Griffin answers a series of FAQ including the one you asked, as someone asked if people who had an acute COVID-19 infection should wait 90 days before getting vaccinated (@5 minutes into the video). So, worth watching:
Last thing I should say before quitting this thread, YES!.. PEOPLE SHOULD STILL WEAR MASKS AFTER BEING VACCINATED. WHY?.. Because vaccination protects them not those around them who aren't and because, as we've already said, the vaccinated person can still shed the virus for a certain period of time, although the transmission data is still lacking at this point for SARS-CoV-2 (as stated in the video above.)
vaccine is just like a last hope, but still if world need to take off this pandemic they need to get clean and use SOPs like washing and sanitizing themselves cover face with mask and make proper distance.
vaccine is just active our body to fight against virus.
Personally I think vaccines is a good step ahead however not 100% effective in stopping the virus.
While vaccines may be helpful in eradicating non contagious diseases, I think the thought that all 7 billion of us can be vaccinated is far-fetched.
Plus there's the fact that even vaccinated people do not get 100% immunity from the virus, and If I recall correctly there was also something about the need to get vaccinated again after sometime...
Right now we got a huge issue on my country...
The main distributor of the vaccine is suffering of delays on the shipping. We are out of stocks and we don't know if we can callback everyone that got the first injection to get the second and final one.
What scaries me is that we are thinking about getting the china's, russia's vaccine and increase tbe finance to start the production of our own vaccine by the end of this summer.
So... we dont know which vaccine we will get and how much protection against which virus variant we will get... it is absurd, we are playing a random chance game with human life!
Moreover, brazilian variant has reached 80 countries and the uk variant doesn't seem to get weaker.
I am praying everyday for the end of this nightmare, it is a damn hell.
(01-27-2021, 11:07 PM)LightDestory Wrote: [ -> ]Right now we got a huge issue on my country...
The main distributor of the vaccine is suffering of delays on the shipping. We are out of stocks and we don't know if we can callback everyone that got the first injection to get the second and final one.
What scaries me is that we are thinking about getting the china's, russia's vaccine and increase tbe finance to start the production of our own vaccine by the end of this summer.
So... we dont know which vaccine we will get and how much protection against which virus variant we will get... it is absurd, we are playing a random chance game with human life!
Moreover, brazilian variant has reached 80 countries and the uk variant doesn't seem to get weaker.
I am praying everyday for the end of this nightmare, it is a damn hell.
Wow that looks really bad, here in Pakistan we are just starting to get vaccines, Currently China has agreed to give us 500k vaccines which is not nearly enough for a nation of population exceeding 200 million but I guess its a start!
Private hospitals had already started trials in Pakistan however the actual vaccination phase has only just begun and most likely priority will be given to the more vulnerable people like children and old-aged people. For now, even though even UK Variant has already reached Pakistan, our daily count hasn't gone much higher and has stabilized between 1000-2000 cases per day, I think our country is blessed in the fact that throughout the pandemic we have made it out so far with minimal losses, hopefully the virus only goes down from here..
(01-27-2021, 11:07 PM)LightDestory Wrote: [ -> ]Right now we got a huge issue on my country...
The main distributor of the vaccine is suffering of delays on the shipping. We are out of stocks and we don't know if we can callback everyone that got the first injection to get the second and final one.
I hear you
. I watched fChk's recommended YouTube recording from a Public Health specialist in the US. He says that with their first dose, some of the packets had more than the recommended number of dosages, so they could inoculate more people than the number they thought they had. He worries that with the next dose, there may be less, so what to do.
I think the fact that people have to be inoculated again and again and again, is a huge problem. Particularly in third world countries like South Africa. As obviously the South African Government can't get the exact same vaccine from one source. It will have to buy from different sources. So those who are inoculated from one source, may have to have the follow up dose from a different source. Also, when does this stop? As in that YouTube show people who have already had the virus are also advised to take the vaccine again. So after a year the vaccine in its two or three separate doses will have to be repeated again. Just think of how much it is going to cost, and how incredibly wealthy the pharmaceutical companies are going to get.
I don't think I'm going to get the vaccine. I'm hoping all those around me will. So we will get herd immunity of a kind. Just sounds very crazy to me. First scientists haven't got the virus completely sorted out yet, like they can't keep track with the new variants. Then they also don't really know how people are going to respond to the vaccines, in a way the first few million people who are inoculated will be almost like a trial of sorts. And who knows just when they think they have a handle on it, the virus has recreated itself again into something that the vaccine is no longer OK with.
I agree with you
. This is a very crazy situation and I'm praying for it also to end.
(01-28-2021, 06:21 PM)deanhills Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think I'm going to get the vaccine. I'm hoping all those around me will. So we will get herd immunity of a kind. Just sounds very crazy to me. First scientists haven't got the virus completely sorted out yet, like they can't keep track with the new variants. Then they also don't really know how people are going to respond to the vaccines, in a way the first few million people who are inoculated will be almost like a trial of sorts. And who knows just when they think they have a handle on it, the virus has recreated itself again into something that the vaccine is no longer OK with.
Well, I will not get the vaccine because I am not eligiable at the moment. I am a mere student without any respiratory complications, fortunately. My country is performing vaccination to old-people, 70+yo, and medical staff. We chose to don't use ALL the vaccine, like the UK which decided to vaccinate as many people as possible, but we are saving up the stock for the second callback.
My fear is that we are not going to use the same vaccine to all the population. We are going to use the GERMAN-USA, China, Russia and Italy's own vaccine. It needs a huge effort to track down all this information... we I know that errors will be made. What makes me angry is that there errors can make someone lose its life.
I personally think that we shouldn't mix the vaccines. We need to follow a straight line so we can assert that no surprise will arise in the future.