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+--- Thread: Windows 7 Updates end on 14 January - what will you be doing? (/Thread-Windows-7-Updates-end-on-14-January-what-will-you-be-doing)
Windows 7 Updates end on 14 January - what will you be doing? - deanhills - 01-01-2020
I'm wondering whether there are still members like me who are using Windows 7. As you all know, Microsoft will stop updates of Windows 7 from middle of this month - January 2020 - so obviously wants use of Windows 7 to stop. For those who are on automatic updates very soon you will be receiving one of those pesky "pop-up" updates - in this case KB4493132 - which will display pop up notifications reminding end-of-life Windows 7 users to upgrade to Windows 10.
I'm not on automatic updates as have been having issues with the updates from 2017 along the lines of serious conflicts. Microsoft was then bundling the updates in one huge roll out every so many months and when my VPN stopped working as a result I had to turn the updates off.
Here's an article I found from TechRadar on what to expect and how to prepare and be prepared if you're still on Windows 7:
https://www.techradar.com/how-to/how-to-prepare-for-windows-7-end-of-life
TechRadar recommends that use be discontinued:
Quote:The biggest issue with continuing to use Windows 7 is that it won't be patched for any new viruses or security problems once it enters End of Life, and this leaves you extremely vulnerable to any emerging threats.
What's more, if a large number of people continue to use Windows 7 after the End of Life date, that could actually be a big incentive for malicious users to target viruses and other nasties at WIndows 7.
So, while Windows 7 will continue to work after January 14 2020, you should start planning to upgrade to Windows 10, or an alternative operating system, as soon as possible.
So purpose of this thread is to figure out what the next step should be. What will you be doing? Will you be upgrading to Windows 10, or will you be moving into a Linux GUI direction? And if it's Linux GUI, what distribution will you be using - or have been successfully using as an alternative for a while now? My ideal would be to go into the Linux direction, but am concerned that some of my Microsoft software won't be working any longer. Also I know for a fact some of my software will stop working with Windows 10.
Alternatively, can one find a free version of Windows 10? Any recommendations?
RE: Windows 7 Updates end on 14 January - what will you be doing? - xdude - 01-01-2020
That's something quite problematic. I need to format my Desktop since it is slow to start and shutdown. I'm going to do it within the next 2 weeks. Still using Windows 7 64bit. So maybe I will have to consider moving to Windows 10. But I even downloaded the Windows 7 service pack 2.
I don't think there are free versions of Windows 10 and I won't able to pay for the paid one anyway. Plus where I live nobody care if you use a pirated version at home your own. So if I have to upgrade I will look around for a torrent.
RE: Windows 7 Updates come to ends 14 January 2020 - what will you be doing? - fChk - 01-01-2020
I remember having posted something about preparing the transition to a Linux Desktop distribution 4/5 years ago in the FFS forums. Indeed!.. Ever since I became aware of the path M$ has chosen for its OSes (post-Win7), I decided that Win7 will be my last production-wise Windows OS... Thus, we've parted ways since that period.
My current boot has become a graveyard of M$ OSes :-) The default path is grub2 bootloader -> Fedora
bootmanager -> Win7
-> WinXP
-> Win8.1
-> Win10
As a result, I'll still be using Win7 when needed (as I'm still using WinXP when I need to.) Nothing really changes for me. My occasional use of M$ OSes is mainly for testing legacy stuff on EOL systems or developmental purposes on Win8.1 and Win10. Production-wise: impact 0.
(01-01-2020, 05:21 AM)deanhills Wrote: Also for the geeks around, would like to know what the worst case scenario will be with sticking with Windows 7 when it's no longer supported by Microsoft.The potential danger is when online; otherwise, it's all good. If I have to give an advice, I would suggest you to install a desktop Linux distribution that you're comfortable with and, by using KVM virtualization, you setup your Windows 7 VM where you have to keep all your legacy applications till you find native Linux alternatives.
If you really want to stick with your current system, I would suggest to convert it to a VHD VM then convert it to a QEMU disk image (qcow2) which you would then use in KVM. It's a bit advanced stuff but doabale with the right assistance/guidelines.
RE: Windows 7 Updates end on 14 January - what will you be doing? - Mashiro - 01-01-2020
Quote:If you really want to stick with your current system, I would suggest to convert it to a VHD VM then convert it to a QEMU disk image (qcow2) which you would then use in KVM. It's a bit advanced stuff but doabale with the right assistance/guidelines.
@fChk
Your reply seems a bit short sighted with all due respect. Please don't be offended by this comment of mine. I will explain why below so you can understand what I mean. I can't even really blame you because I'm also rather short sighted or blind to some things because I do them often or have a lot of experience with them. I keep catching myself doing it often enough, too.
You cannot expect someone who has been using Windows all their life to switch to Linux and use KVM to virtualize their old Windows system to be able to still use it in cases when they might still need it. Especially here you can't just throw this out into the open. From my time here, with high confidence, I can say that only a very small percentage of users would be able to do what you suggest (which includes you, me and a few others). I'm helping out here a lot and often see that even Linux basics aren't a thing for many users. And when you expect people to read and follow guides for such rather complex things (as you said it yourself "It's a bit advanced stuff...") I have another bad news for you. Anyway. I'm just trying to explain that your advice is not good for people who want to switch from Linux to Windows and still retain their old Windows system in a usable way. It is the right direction but not the right instruction for the audience that mostly visits this site and posts here (or rather said the experience level needed is too high for most).
A user that wants to switch will probably use a common Linux distribution with a desktop enviroment and a window manager (or lets simply say a GUI). A GUI is probably the most important for Windows users switching to Linux. Now we both know that people who post here also certainly have CLI experience as they do use Linux in CLI (mostly) on their VPSs from here. That's good but in most cases to come as close to Windows as possible I think users will be using GUI tools like the software and package manager and etc. So my advice would be rather the following (see below). I think it is easy and user friendly for people who just switched to Linux.
On the old Windows system I would suggest to use Disk2vhd by Windows Sysinternals to make a one to one copy of the Windows system and all the software, files and etc... in form of a virtual HDD file that can be used with a lot of virtualization software types. It's a neat little GUI tool for Windows. You start it. Select which drives you want to make a VHD copy of and then you specify a path were to save the VHD files. Hit button and let it do its magic. During the process I of course wouldn't recommend to do anything else that would make changes to the drives. That's where I'm with your idea still.
Now comes the part I would approach different. Lets say that the user now has already installed a Linux distribution of their choice and is basically using it already. I would launch the package manager, search for Virtualbox and install it. This way you will get a nice virtualization software with a GUI and most even know about it already and have used it. It's easy to use and follow compared to setting up and configuring KVM and KVM machines via the command line. After its installed they can launch it, create a new VM for their old Windows system following the wizard and then they can select the VHD files of their old system when they're at the part where they can configure the disk of the VM. And in the advanced settings they can even change the Virt type to KVM. Which I would suggest to do if the hardware supports hardware virtualization. KVM is just so much better for close to real hardware emulation.
I know this is much easier and faster to do than using KVM purely because I have already in the past used pure KVM and also have use VMWare, Virtualbox and Hyper-V. Out of all of them the fastest way is always using a GUI application if you're on a OS with a GUI already and load up existing VHD files. I did/do this at work all the time. Especially now when we're moving a lot of servers that are physcial to a different data center where they will be running as a VM. We create a VHD of them and send it over a symmetric 1 Gbit/s connection inside our MPLS fibre Intranet network to the data center. A little later the server is up and running as a VM on their cluster (they use Nutanix though). I even did this with my old computer during transition time as we all know that it is hard to build up a new system when your old computer already has all apps, all configurations and etc. Worked like a charm.
That's it. If I missed something feel free to point it out. As far as I'm aware from doing it multiple times the process doesn't require any bit more knowledge than what most people here already have. Even if it does the guides and information would be easier to comprehend and follow.
RE: Windows 7 Updates end on 14 January - what will you be doing? - fChk - 01-02-2020
@Hidden Refuge
Thanks for the feedback!..
On the form.
I don't think I'm required to make any assumption about my readers. My usual attitude (and it won't gonna change) is that there is none. In other words, my posts' content conveys my understanding of things to the best of my knowledge and as I can formulate/express it (on the fly) at that particular moment. Besides, I'm writing for anybody with a browser who cares to read the stuff; be it from this community or just a guy sent here by our Google's folks.
I would guess that it should be you, as the official 'Tech Consultant' around here (as your profile suggest), who should take into consideration all the specifics related to this community's audience when replying to their queries. And I sympathize with you in that endeavour.. While I'm just a guy who popped up from no where to get a hosting. :-)
On the substance.
If I've read you correctly, you're suggesting the use of VirtualBox as an alternative to KVM, given that it can make use of VHD storage disks, thus avoiding the second conversion. Well, that's a possible solution, but not the best (as you agreed to it too.) KVM is the Best Virtualization solution on Linux (as I agree with RedHat in their attitude of considering it as a type-I hypervisor on Linux.)
I always prefer native solutions when they exist over third-party ones. Even on Windows, as of Win8.1/Win10, I no longer use VMWare or VirtualBox but rather go for M$'s own Hyper-V.
On the other hand, KVM virtualization isn't all that "scary" when a user is already familiar with the likes of VirualBox or VMWare. At least on RedHat systems (specifically Fedora in its default GNOME desktop environment), there is a virt-manager package that provides a GUI-frontend for virsh command-line (which is, as you know, the tool that interacts with the libvirt service/api.)
On Fedora 31, under 'System Tools', there is a 'Virtual Machine Manager' option (that's in-fact the link to virt-manager GUI-tool.) When clicked, a familiar interface shows up, where anyone ( and certainly that brave guy who took the challenge to migrate from Windows to Linux desktop) can setup a VM to his liking. Obviously, he will need help when doing that the first time (isn't that the way we've all learned this stuff?..)
Gnome desktop environment has also something called Boxes, specifically designed to simplify virtualization even further; see here for more.
Anyway, I may open threads about this whole virtualization and dockerization things down the road. I like to document things for me and others for an easily accessible online resources.
Thanks again for the feedback :-)
RE: Windows 7 Updates end on 14 January - what will you be doing? - rudra - 01-02-2020
if one is using at least a 4 or 6 core 8th/9th gen (thsat is i3 or i5) or a similar or better (core count ) ryzen system,then going the virtual way is going to be nice. one can choose to multiboot too. especially for older systems.
the main concern is latest digital threats and so make sure you don't go online from those windows systems which are not being updated anymore. or may be use an updated browser and good updated antivirus and still keep going online.
it all depends. personally, i still like using computers without antivirus (well, on Windows 10, the native defender is ok, i guess). given all the ways they can get to you and also how intrusive these very antivirus systems are, it is how i like to do things.
Ubuntu Linux is the one i still like the most.
RE: Windows 7 Updates end on 14 January - what will you be doing? - fChk - 05-25-2020
(01-01-2020, 06:08 AM)fChk Wrote: My current boot has become a graveyard of M$ OSes :-) The default path is grub2 bootloader -> FedoraLately, I was busy revamping my home PC. Too much legacy stuff was laying around while not needed any more.
bootmanager -> Win7
-> WinXP
-> Win8.1
-> Win10
As a result, I'll still be using Win7 when needed (as I'm still using WinXP when I need to.) Nothing really changes for me. My occasional use of M$ OSes is mainly for testing legacy stuff on EOL systems or developmental purposes on Win8.1 and Win10. Production-wise: impact 0.
My boot was as stated in the quote above. What wasn't mentioned is that I'm using 3 disks: one for Fedora Linux, one for WinXP-Pro-SP3, Win7-Ult-SP1 and Win8.1-Pro and a third for Win10-Pro.
The plan was to virtualize WinXP-Pro-SP3, Win8.1-Pro and Win10-Pro then remove them from my boot, leaving only Win7-Ult-SP1 along with Fedora's grub2 as default.
The strategy was essentially as stated below:
(01-01-2020, 06:08 AM)fChk Wrote: If you really want to stick with your current system, I would suggest to convert it to a VHD VM then convert it to a QEMU disk image (qcow2) which you would then use in KVM. It's a bit advanced stuff but doabale with the right assistance/guidelines.
This is not the first time I was doing this P2V (Physical-to-Virtual) migration, but it's the first time I'm doing it for high-value (non-expandable) systems holding years of work (even decades in the case of WinXP) that I can't afford to lose.
The KVM virtualization process went as planned with few tweaks here and there; the actual process will probably be documented subsequently in a thread/topic. Suffice to say that I've used the qemu-img tool to convert Win-10 disk directly to qcow2 disk file format while I've used the classic windows internal tool disk2vhd to convert the 2TB-partition-rich disk into VHD files holding discrete system partitions that were cleaned up before conversion to the qcow2 format.
Once system disks were available, the next hurdle is to fix the broken boot process, which is easily fixed in the case WinNT 6.x systems but not for WinNT 5.2 (ie winXP.)
The problem with Windows XP was not only its need for its own nt52 boot but also and above all getting the qemu BIOS and the native disk controller to talk to each other in the first place. So be mindful of that when (for some odd reason) you're still caring for a WinXP system.
Anyway, won't bother you with the 'techy' stuff, the summary here is that if you find yourself 95% of your time always logged in to your Linux system while your other Windows system 'rot' in their partition, it may be time to virtualize them (if of course you have the ad-hoc hardware specs: storage, memory, CPU hardware virtualization capability.)
Thus beside having your windows system at hand inside your Linux environment, virtualization makes also archiving and future migration possible and straightforward.
RE: Windows 7 Updates end on 14 January - what will you be doing? - tryp4vps - 05-26-2020
(05-25-2020, 12:56 AM)fChk Wrote: ..... This is not the first time I was doing this P2V (Physical-to-Virtual) migration, but it's the first time I'm doing it for high-value (non-expandable) systems holding years of work (even decades in the case of WinXP) that I can't afford to lose.....
Interesting idea. I am also thinking about migrating my current Windows 10 installation to a VM disk. But I am afraid I will need to re-activate my Windows 10 after the migration?
And is there any easy way to do the reverse later if need? I mean the Virtual-to-Physical migration.
RE: Windows 7 Updates end on 14 January - what will you be doing? - Mashiro - 05-26-2020
@tryp4vps
It is actually very likely that your Windows 10 installation might need a re-activation after porting it from physical installation to a virtual machine. I ported a Hyper-V Windows 10 VM to physical hardware and instantly had to re-activate the license after it booted up. The reason for that is the big change in physical VS VM and vice versa in terms of hardware and etc. I also think that Microsoft has built in ways to detect that it is being run virtualized in terms of the re-licensing on hardware changes.
So much on the licensing subject.
You can revert VM to physical by using tools like Clonezilla or Acronis. Create a backup with them and restore it on the physical hardware. Reverting from the VHD to physical is a bit more work.
It would bascially work as follows:
1. Mount the Acronis Bootable ISO into your VM and set boot order to boot from the ISO.
2. In Acronis create a full backup of all partitions of your Windows 10 OS.
(If you can actually mount a USB storage device inside the VM to storage the backup file. If you cannot than you migh need to create a new empty VHD big enough to hold the backup file and later on mount that VHD to extract the backup file from it.)
4. Save the backup to a destination of your choice.
5. Boot the physical machine from the Acronis Bootable ISO and also insert the storage media with the backup file.
6. Restore the backup to the HDD of the physical machine.
(You might need to clean the partitions on the HDD first and create a simple NTFS partition beforehand.)
Sounds like a lot of work? It really isn't. The longest part is really the backup creation and restore process depending heavily on how big your OS partitions are. The rest is done quick and rather easy with Acronis.
There may be many other ways and different software. I use Acronis for Windows systems as it worked best so far for me. For Linux I wouldn't recommend Acronis. It cannot really deal well with EXT4 and such filesystems and would create a 1:1 sector backup file which takes very long because it would even backup empty space and you need a storage device with enough space to hold the backup.
RE: Windows 7 Updates end on 14 January - what will you be doing? - tryp4vps - 05-28-2020
@'Hidden Refuge'
Many thanks for your detailed answers.
It seems I will have to re-activate my Windows 10 after the migration. This is something I wanted to avoid.
And thank you especially for letting me know about Acronis. I only used Clonezilla before, but never try Acronis. I will definitely give Acronis a try.
I would still like to find an easy way reversing VHD created by Disk2vhd directly to physical, though.
