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This was scary! - deanhills - 02-21-2020
Think I've mentioned before that South Africa is going through some serious load shedding - meaning that the power is shut down for different zones at different times - usually 2.5 hours at a time a couple or more times a day depending on the Stage of load shedding - usually 2 or 3 times a day. Because of lack of maintenance of power generation equipment over a long period of time (decades), there isn't enough electricity in South Africa to meet the total demand. So now they've moved to scheduled load shedding that is not always well scheduled. Like there may be no load shedding for a few days, and all of a sudden out of the blue it will start again. And catch people unaware.
We were caught unaware again last night. At around 1:00 a.m. I was aware (while I was sleeping) that everything went dark. I didn't worry about it that much, but at 2:30 a.m. when the power came on, there must have been a surge or something as my computer started to make heavy sounds and the "on switch" was flashing like crazy. I turned the on switch off, waited a while, turned off the electricity at the wall, then turned everything back on again, but then the flashing continued again. I was almost sure my computer was in the process of dying. I tried again, and the same thing happened - a flashing switch and lots of whining by the computer - like three long whines and a short interval in between continuing without stopping. I then in desperation uncoupled all of the devices attached to the computer tower including the monitor, speakers, printer etc, took the computer tower to the kitchen, and then found an alternate power cord - just in case it was the cord that was the problem. And it turned out then that it was the cord as the computer worked OK with the alternate cord. The cord must have been fried when the power came on again.
You can't imagine the absolute relief when after I had re-attached all of the equipment such as speakers, printer etc again, the computer was working again - all of the attached devices as well. There was a slightly whining sound in the tower, but that worked itself out eventually by tonight - after the third time I'd turned off the computer during the day.
By the time everything was working at 4:00 a.m. my first step was to immediately create an emergency system disk. I have made regular backups before, but the "rescue disk" was dated to 2014 when I first got the computer, and I've never made a full "image backup" of the computer. I went for everything in the list of copies one could make in the Windows 7 Backup and Rescue Window. Fortunately everything was done by the next scheduled load shedding session at 9:00 a.m.
This was really scary. And I guess it is liable to happen to the best of us. I just wonder why it went for the computer cord and not for the printer or monitor cord as well. Like maybe there was already something that wasn't that good with the cord? I have a surge protector. All of the equipment attached to the computer also are on the surge protector - but only the computer cord was effected. I used to always leave my computer on, however now decided to have it as a habit to always turn off my computer at the end of a session. Hopefully that will help as the load shedding is going to be with us for a very long time.
RE: This was scary! - Sn1F3rt - 02-22-2020
Well... Well.. Well, this load shedding thing seems quite annoying. It's sort of torturing the consumers, because of the lack of timely action on their end.
Coming to the cord, I'd say that any part of our PC can get affected, sometimes the ones which are least expected.
About a month ago, before my exams had begun, my PC screen went blank when I'd actually been working on the PC. Switching it off and on didn't help, even after a couple of times. My dad called up the mechanic, and just as he arrived, the monitor started working just fine. Here in my city, we hardly have any load shedding. Although the last one was yesterday itself, it lasted only about a couple of minutes, and moreover this one was after a couple of months. Here the service is good cuz this is the capital city of our country and therefore ... Needn't explain.
Nevertheless, I've a full power backup, that's an inverter, and it's been lying idle, cuz it isn't deployed at all. I'd say it's consuming my electricity rather doing nothing, but TBH it helps when the power suddenly fails amd me or my dad is doing some really important work on the PC.
I liked your decision to shut down your PC after every session, that's a good habit and should actually be inculcated. Afterall, the PC too needs a little rest like us.
My computer has been going on for the past 10 years without any maintenance or repairing. Can't say much, but really wish this persistent problem of load shedding is solved soon in your country, I understand how awful they are as we'd the same problem in the previous town where we lived.
RE: This was scary! - ikk157 - 02-22-2020
(02-21-2020, 11:40 PM)deanhills Wrote: Think I've mentioned before that South Africa is going through some serious load shedding - meaning that the power is shut down for different zones at different times - usually 2.5 hours at a time a couple or more times a day depending on the Stage of load shedding - usually 2 or 3 times a day. Because of lack of maintenance of power generation equipment over a long period of time (decades), there isn't enough electricity in South Africa to meet the total demand. So now they've moved to scheduled load shedding that is not always well scheduled. Like there may be no load shedding for a few days, and all of a sudden out of the blue it will start again. And catch people unaware.
We were caught unaware again last night. At around 1:00 a.m. I was aware (while I was sleeping) that everything went dark. I didn't worry about it that much, but at 2:30 a.m. when the power came on, there must have been a surge or something as my computer started to make heavy sounds and the "on switch" was flashing like crazy. I turned the on switch off, waited a while, turned off the electricity at the wall, then turned everything back on again, but then the flashing continued again. I was almost sure my computer was in the process of dying. I tried again, and the same thing happened - a flashing switch and lots of whining by the computer - like three long whines and a short interval in between continuing without stopping. I then in desperation uncoupled all of the devices attached to the computer tower including the monitor, speakers, printer etc, took the computer tower to the kitchen, and then found an alternate power cord - just in case it was the cord that was the problem. And it turned out then that it was the cord as the computer worked OK with the alternate cord. The cord must have been fried when the power came on again.
You can't imagine the absolute relief when after I had re-attached all of the equipment such as speakers, printer etc again, the computer was working again - all of the attached devices as well. There was a slightly whining sound in the tower, but that worked itself out eventually by tonight - after the third time I'd turned off the computer during the day.
By the time everything was working at 4:00 a.m. my first step was to immediately create an emergency system disk. I have made regular backups before, but the "rescue disk" was dated to 2014 when I first got the computer, and I've never made a full "image backup" of the computer. I went for everything in the list of copies one could make in the Windows 7 Backup and Rescue Window. Fortunately everything was done by the next scheduled load shedding session at 9:00 a.m.
This was really scary. And I guess it is liable to happen to the best of us. I just wonder why it went for the computer cord and not for the printer or monitor cord as well. Like maybe there was already something that wasn't that good with the cord? I have a surge protector. All of the equipment attached to the computer also are on the surge protector - but only the computer cord was effected. I used to always leave my computer on, however now decided to have it as a habit to always turn off my computer at the end of a session. Hopefully that will help as the load shedding is going to be with us for a very long time.
Darn! I knew a lot of sad and weird stuff was going on in South Africa. But I never knew it was this bad! This entire situation seems very scary to even think of, I could only imagine your perspective living it!
As for the weird behavior you’ve experienced, I highly recommend completely unplugging any electronic devices that you’re not using. And the ones you are using, I recommend unplugging them as soon as the power goes out.
I aint no electrical engineer, but my dad (who is one) has always told us to uplug everything during a power outage as they could get severely damaged the instant the power goes back up. Not sure why that is, I’m guessing that the load as soon as they turn the power back on is significantly higher than normal, making it hard to regulate the output. A surge protector won’t be of much use in that case. Also, surge protectors work by sending the excess power to ground, so if they’re not grounded, they’re pretty much useless!
RE: This was scary! - Mashiro - 02-22-2020
It's a very good idea to unplug as many devices as possible once power is out as @ikk157 has suggested. If possible it is also enough to configure devices not to power on after power loss (usually works with computers, servers, NAS systems or similar). However many home appliances don't have any configuration abilities to setup such things (fridges, TVs, etc...).
The reason why you should do this is actually simple to explain. During the startup phase of devices the power draw is a lot higher than during their usual operation cycle. This issue is known as "spikes" in the electrical system. The voltage and power draw sky rockets at the moment all devices start at the same time when power comes back. This makes the power grid unstable and can actually trigger another power loss if the switching components aren't able to serve the power demand needed during startup of all the devices.
So if you or your power company has old technology or bad components in the power grid... these spikes can actually just cause another outage. At worst some components might break like fuses and etc... thus once again delaying the time until power is back. I've seen even worse things happen though. It is very dangerous for example to power on all the switching equipment in a power plant because during the startup phase of the switching cabinets their power draw is so high... if something is wrong inside it can blow up the whole cabinet or kill people standing nearby if they don't have the necessary protective gear. Of course nothing that extreme can/will happen at home.
As an example you can always take the phase when you power on your car and start the engine. At the time you start the engine the power draw is insanely high. We're talking about several hundred Amps of power draw. However this is only necessary for a very short time (to start the engine). After that the power draw goes back to a more moderate and acceptable value. Automotive batteries are made to be able to serve this much power though. However if the engine is blocked or something else is broken and you keep trying to start the engine you will actually drain the battery because usually a running engine recharges the battery.
If the battery is too old or bad it won't be able to start the engine because it can't hold up with the power draw even for the very few seconds where it is needed to start the engine. Same can happen at home or at the company power grid just in huge dimensions as many people are connected to power company power grids.
The reason why you should do this is actually simple to explain. During the startup phase of devices the power draw is a lot higher than during their usual operation cycle. This issue is known as "spikes" in the electrical system. The voltage and power draw sky rockets at the moment all devices start at the same time when power comes back. This makes the power grid unstable and can actually trigger another power loss if the switching components aren't able to serve the power demand needed during startup of all the devices.
So if you or your power company has old technology or bad components in the power grid... these spikes can actually just cause another outage. At worst some components might break like fuses and etc... thus once again delaying the time until power is back. I've seen even worse things happen though. It is very dangerous for example to power on all the switching equipment in a power plant because during the startup phase of the switching cabinets their power draw is so high... if something is wrong inside it can blow up the whole cabinet or kill people standing nearby if they don't have the necessary protective gear. Of course nothing that extreme can/will happen at home.
As an example you can always take the phase when you power on your car and start the engine. At the time you start the engine the power draw is insanely high. We're talking about several hundred Amps of power draw. However this is only necessary for a very short time (to start the engine). After that the power draw goes back to a more moderate and acceptable value. Automotive batteries are made to be able to serve this much power though. However if the engine is blocked or something else is broken and you keep trying to start the engine you will actually drain the battery because usually a running engine recharges the battery.
If the battery is too old or bad it won't be able to start the engine because it can't hold up with the power draw even for the very few seconds where it is needed to start the engine. Same can happen at home or at the company power grid just in huge dimensions as many people are connected to power company power grids.
RE: This was scary! - xdude - 02-22-2020
Don't you use a UPS ? We used to have lots of power fluctuations so I have been using one since my very first computer. Single battery one cost about 30 USD here and I use a dual battery one which cost about 50 usd. If not the best method is unplug everything on time.
RE: This was scary! - LightDestory - 02-22-2020
I think that this action is likely illegal, I know that an incident can occur but don't give any eta regarding the work over the power generators is just unacceptable.
For electronics good I suggest to set up a UPS to get a backup while working or create a general switch that you set off when you not need them. such switch can save your goods from frying.
RE: This was scary! - perry - 02-22-2020
in this case having a laptop isn't that bad idea. and have a secondary battery or more.
a ups would work but for how long?
RE: This was scary! - ikk157 - 02-23-2020
To the above three messages suggesting using a UPS (sorry I couldn’t just quote all of them on mobile, that’ll take too much time and effort):
Don’t you think the UPS itself will also go bad eventually with these regular power outages? It could also be affected by the spikes caused when the power goes back up. Not to mention that it could get very expensive buying a UPS for every device (cuz heck, you don’t want things such as your fridges to go down either!)
I’m also not a big fan of having a huge lithium-ion battery just laying there, specially one in a cheap UPS. We all know how explosive these things can get!
RE: This was scary! - xdude - 02-23-2020
@ikk157
Well UPS are specifically made for situations like these as well as similar things. The most basic function is giving you enough time to shut down your pc when there is a sudden power outrage. But also it keep the PC safe for Power fluctuations which you might not even notice. And It can save yr pc form bit power overload too by burning it's overload protection fuses depending on what type you have. Even in a worse case like massive lightning strike situation it would burn the UPS and save your PC. So that's 30 USD against 500-1000 computer. Take your pick.
About Lithium-ion batteries, I have yet to seen an UPS blowing up. I have used those cheap single cell UPS because start using those big expensive dual cell UPS with additional features. So these are not exactly blowing like balloons. Only important thing to remember is when you replace batteries make sure buy good quality stuff even its bit expensive. Not because those blow but because those don't last long.
Im here only talking about Computer. For things like fridge there are other solutions. For example there are overload protectors for refrigerators.
@perryoo11
My UPS lasts 30 minutes.
RE: This was scary! - deanhills - 02-23-2020
Thanks for the response @xdude. I like the idea of an inverter and have made some inquiries about cost. Probably worth it, but with all of my recent expenses and no income to offset, I'm hesitating .... for now!
(02-22-2020, 09:42 AM)ikk157 Wrote: I aint no electrical engineer, but my dad (who is one) has always told us to uplug everything during a power outage as they could get severely damaged the instant the power goes back up. Not sure why that is, I’m guessing that the load as soon as they turn the power back on is significantly higher than normal, making it hard to regulate the output. A surge protector won’t be of much use in that case. Also, surge protectors work by sending the excess power to ground, so if they’re not grounded, they’re pretty much useless!This is an excellent recommendation. Many thanks @ikk157. Like that is something I could have done and should have thought off as soon as I became aware of the power going off before the power came on again. Get up and turn off the main plug. Also unplugging it from the wall.
I'm still amazed however how well the router is doing with all of this. Like maybe I shouldn't talk too fast. The router is the newest of all of the equipment, I recently got this ADSL service (less than a month ago), and a brand new router was installed. It seems to be designed to withstand surges .... if I'm correct in my assessment. Also the printer - a Samsung XPress 2027 - reasonable new - 2017 (feels new with how fast time is going
but I'm comparing it with the age of the computer 2014) but the printer is also taking the load shedding quite in its stride with no issues. Just the computer power pack I've got to be more careful with. Like the computer seemed to have withstood the surge and kudos to it and Windows 7. But the power part of it is what I now know I should be more than careful with. If I don't go for an inverter I probably should consider a UPS - just hate getting equipment that are extra. Like I'm a minimalist and try to stick with the minimum if possible.(02-22-2020, 10:10 AM)Hidden Refuge Wrote: So if you or your power company has old technology or bad components in the power grid... these spikes can actually just cause another outage. At worst some components might break like fuses and etc... thus once again delaying the time until power is back. I've seen even worse things happen though. It is very dangerous for example to power on all the switching equipment in a power plant because during the startup phase of the switching cabinets their power draw is so high... if something is wrong inside it can blow up the whole cabinet or kill people standing nearby if they don't have the necessary protective gear. Of course nothing that extreme can/will happen at home.
Fantastic explanation many thanks @"Hidden Refuge". Like I had an idea why the need for not allowing equipment to power on spontaneously once there has been an involuntary power off, but you explained it perfectly and I understand it much better too.
What you said above about old technology is SO TRUE! Like more than once already the power went off shortly after the load shedding session had expired for the very reason you mentioned. Initially we all thought we got another load shedding event that had been unscheduled. But then when we inquired discovered the power station had a component that mal-functioned after the load shedding event and when the power was turned back on and had to be shut down for repairs. Most of the local municipality infra structure is not that up to date with maintenance either. This load shedding is heavy on all equipment that has to do with power generation. So we've had it more than once where shortly after the power went on, there was a failure at the local power station. This one is usually much worse for equipment when they power back on, than the "scheduled" load shedding sessions.
So thanks for reminding me of that as well. Maybe one should wait a while before one turns on one's computer after a load shedding event. To give the local power station enough time to show it has been successfully turned back on without any issues. Or to make absolutely sure one doesn't turn one's equipment on without having shut it down first after the power went down unscheduled. Or set it up as per your suggestion.