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Controversial: Does God Exist?
#1
This might be my most controversial post yet but I have to give my opinion on it and you can too. I am going to list some arguments that religious or just believers put forward.

  1. How would have this universe appeared out of nowhere, God created this universe
  2. God existed even before this universe's creation and he is the ultimate being.
My arguments:

Let me start by stating that everything my opinion is very scientifical as I believe that science provides a more compelling argument in this case.

As an enthusiast in Science, nothing can be more interesting for me to find out why, how and, dare I say, who created this universe.

I did my research and found that even the Big Bang Theory (the current theory that proves the start of the universe) doesn't properly explain what or even who triggered the... bang. Well, that's because it doesn't have to. It is proven by Quantum Mechanics.

If we see on a microscopic level, like a sub-atomic level, protons appear and disappear out of nowhere. A proton that is at a spot might have disappeared to appear somewhere else. The study of this is called Quantum Mechanics

Keeping this in mind if we go back in time when the universe was as small as a proton. So it is possible that nothing could have triggered the creation of the universe, more specifically the Big Bang.

Also, there was no time before the Big Bang, let me tell you how.
Imagine a black hole in space and a clock. Assume that the clock doesn't get sucked into the black hole by its gravitational pull. If we bring the clock closer to the black hole, we will observe the clock's speed slowing down. This will keep happening before the clock stops completely. Now keeping this into account imagine our universe before the Big Bang. It was just a giant singularity.

In other words, there was no time before the Big Bang so God would have had to time to create it in the first place.

Now before you say that God is above all of this and is not affected by time whatsoever, let me tell you this:

The stuff that you just read is among the many basic Laws of Nature that no creature, being can break otherwise they won't be called 'laws'.

I rest my argument here. Looking forward to your opinions.

Regards

HariVP
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#2
I will bite. this has no form of any kind of coherent argument.

Your belief is not logic. Also protons can not appear and disappear and reappear at any point in space out of whim. That is the kind of science we learn from pop sci writers like Pothik Guha. hahaha. But then even his standard might be higher. I dunno.

It is simply, we do not know yet.

Why cant people accept that we know very little of this world and most of the truth is even beyond our imagination still and let it rest there ?
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#3
I have a perfect video that explains the question. Some might not agree but many proofs came out of the religious book and most obvious one is Qur'an because many of inventions already exist. However, I'm not going to put forward any religion-specific discussion because some might get offended or may hate specific religion. In order to maintain harmony, I would put this video which proves that God exists. Rest is up to you Smile 




I also disagree with your point of "Giant Singularity". "Singularity" is just a word that indirectly indicates that something, even, single, existed before time which is false as we know. For something to be in existence, it must have a creator. By the word "existence", I mean to say, our reality. What is beyond our universe is unreachable by a human or any living creature that was created within universe(as far as we know, we're alone). Before Big bang, existed "Absolute Nothingness". In simple words, nothing existed before Big Bang, ie before time. 

Talking about Quantum Mechanics, it has to do with "Quantum Entanglement" where two-particle with same property(I don't know how but I know it's scientific proof) are placed at two different distance point, they act to rotate themselves in opposite direction.

[Image: quantum-entanglement.png]

Particle A is placed in a scientific lab and Particle B is placed in a distance lab of 63 KM away from Particle A's lab... If particle A rotates in the upward direction(arrow would be upward), then particle B would rotate it in the downward direction(arrow would be downward). But the strangest thing is if there is a distance between particle A and B of 63 KM, how can they both communicate? I mean to say, how particle B knows that Particle A has rotated in the upward direction and how would particle B know that particle A is rotated in an upward direction? When it is measured how much time it takes before both particles are able to rotate in opposite poles of each other, it is measured to be more than 100x the speed of light. 

If nothing can be as fast as the speed of light nor anything can be faster than that, how can those two-particle at such great distance be able to communicate so faster? In this scenario, "faster" word would be invalid. There is 0 time taken for communication between particles.

My theory on this is, when the two-particle A and B rotate, there is dimensional travel between them. It means, it breaks the reality and the particle travels through a timeless dimension to transport the message that one particle is moved. In this timeless dimension, particles are already at Quantum level(smallest possible). In such smaller scale, laws of physics of our reality breaks(already mentioned in Wikipedia). When laws of physics are broken, whatever happens, is out of our scope of understanding. 
In much simpler word, particles enter a whole new reality. Just like everything is made up of atom, Quantum particles like A and B exists everywhere. They're always active. Their properties are unknown to us. 

I believe that such timeless dimensions are controlled by a superior power. Let's say it as, God. We'll come to God later. 

Such timeless dimensions can be the original reality. In other words, we're living in a simulation. We're controlled by a superior power. Just like we play games like GTA SA, GTA V, GTA VC and other similar games where we control the characters and other pedestrians in the game are NPCs/Bots. We know that it is a simulation and we control the character and those peds are NPCs and are set to do particular task of walking by or driving or whatever task was given to them, to make it look like we're in a real world.
[Image: gamepeds.jpg]

Now the question arises, what if we're living in a simulation? Yes, there are many possibilities that we're already living in a simulation. If a science geek like me says that we're living in a simulation, it can be said that I can be making up stories or theories that don't exist. But what if I tell you that billionaire Elon Musk too said, "There are only 0.0001- chances we're not living in a simulation." which means, there are 99.999%+ chances that we're already living in a simulation. Even many scientists believe that and many scientific proofs have been discovered(absolute one is yet to be discovered). 

Now if we're living in a simulation, there must be someone who started this simulation. And the one who started the simulation, is someone "uncreated", means, someone who was never born. In simple words, someone who always existed. Before time, in time, and will exist after time. In scientific term, scientists call such "someone" as "Advanced Civilization". 
Now we know that someone beyond our reality exists and that is what the guy in the above video explains.
Now people would say, "Games are played in a standard computer. But how can a universe be played in a single computer? It requires unlimited amount of computing power to process information like Galaxies, Stars, elements, forces and etc.". For this amount of computing power, it can be only possible in our scientific hypothetical world, the place where our "Advanced Civilization" exists. We're back to the old answer I already mentioned above. Whatever lives beyond our reality is out of our scope. We cannot know its existence and even if we would want to know, why would our "Advanced Civilization" would want us to explore? We're limited to discovery by the superior power(ie Advanced Civilization) to know about them. However, if to know, it will be possible only if they wish to let us know.  

Coming to the question, whether God exists or no? Yes, I scientifically believe that God exists. Scientists call it "Advanced Civilization" and religious people call it as "God". Now what I believe is, "Advanced Civilization" isn't actually a "civilization" but a single person who controls everything. That single person is called as the Almighty, the God. 

I believe in God because whatever is written in my religion's holy book is true. The book was written for around 1,400+ years ago consisting many the then hypothetical scenarios which in today's world, no more hypothetical, but reality. Again, I wouldn't start a religion-specific discussion. 
What I believe is, God is one and people think that the only God exists is of their religion. I'm a religious person and as per my analysis, the only true God that exists is my religion's God. Other people too believe like this, but blindly without any "scientific" analysis.

I hope you're satisfied with my answer(it is my biggest answer I wrote till now on P4V). I request everyone who is going to continue the discussion on this topic to please generalize this topic and don't start a "religion-specific" discussion(for a peaceful continuation of this discussion).
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#4
(09-16-2019, 12:56 PM)rudra Wrote:  I will bite. this has no form of any kind of coherent argument.

Your belief is not logic. Also protons can not appear and disappear and reappear at any point in space out of whim. That is the kind of science we learn from pop sci writers like Pothik Guha. hahaha. But then even his standard might be higher. I dunno.

It is simply, we do not know yet.

Why cant people accept that we know very little of this world and most of the truth is even beyond our imagination still and let it rest there ?

Actually yes, particles can appear out of nothing. At the tiniest scales, energy acts randomly and something can ever-so-briefly appear from nothing. I am not saying this randomly (out of nothing... XD). Late Stephen Hawking said in his book "Brief Answers To Big Questions". He called the universe "the ultimate free lunch" because it came into being on a minuscule scale out of nothingness with no cause or creator beyond the laws of quantum mechanics, which allows for randomness
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#5
(09-16-2019, 03:34 PM)HariVP Wrote:  Actually yes, particles can appear out of nothing. At the tiniest scales, energy acts randomly and something can ever-so-briefly appear from nothing. I am not saying this randomly (out of nothing... XD). Late Stephen Hawking said in his book "Brief Answers To Big Questions". He called the universe "the ultimate free lunch" because it came into being on a minuscule scale out of nothingness with no cause or creator beyond the laws of quantum mechanics, which allows for randomness

Not to be rude, but this makes up no logic. Assuming 'came out of nowhere' doesn't makes any sense. There has be a source and my answer somehow manages to demonstrate what could it be. Quantum mechanics are not fully understood due to its inter-dimensional properties and that is why, they're very complex. Even properties has to be originated from something before nothing. And that something is beyond Human's ability to think. Still, many logical ideas with logical proofs have come up.
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#6
@Manal: Yeah I too agree. It can't be exactly said that particles arise out of nowhere, but I've read that mass and energy are definitely related by Einstein's Mass-energy Equivalence: E=mc^2. This, energy can change into mass and vice-versa.

Maybe this has something to do with subatomic particles again. There are many things that we don't know yet, about the behavioral pattern of these. I mean, for instance, take the dual nature of light. It's assigned a dual nature based on many evidences. Also, there are many phenomenon (including quantum mechanics) that has been explained by this property. However, to be honest, I don't quite agree with that. You see how can you say that an object has two different states without even having seen a photon till date. You know I feel humans are manipulating things according to the need of the situation, without actually realising whether it's universal. Obviously, if you take the law itself, it will definitely be universal as the proposition was put forward to explain the law.

There are many such complicated things, which I don't completely agree with, but anyways I have to assert to them as they're a part of my course.

I too believe in that existence of that something which is beyond, human intelligence. Hope to decipher it in the best future, but again not in the way we've been doing it till date.

I feel we're making this topic to scientific whereas it was largely meant on a philosophical note. Let's rest it here. I strongly feel this thread should have been in the 'General' section rather than here. Could an administrator kindly move it?

Maybe @Manal we can make a separate topic and continue this discussion. Also there's something apart from this I'd like to highlight. It's sad that notice no one else except your responded to my proposition of a 'Science' section here at Post4VPS. I strongly feel we could have great discussion it there. We already have numerous contributors like you, me, @rudra, @LightDestory, @HariVP, even @deanhills, @perryoo11 and many others. I'll bump that suggestion once, for reconsideration.

Regards,
Sayan Bhattacharyya,

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#7
I thin it should be good to make this forum respectful for all religions. if you start those kind of topics you never get any results and i know you to hell with care of any results.. you never wish learn what someone said about there religion. and however you never like someone teach you about your spirituality. So at the end it makes disturbance and cross questioning. and many many more which disturb the peace of forum. i requested to please Close this thread.

Heart LOVE FOR ALL  HATRED FOR NONE Heart
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#8
(09-24-2019, 01:16 PM)HariVP Wrote:  Now since multiple people have taken part in this discussion, it only makes sense if all of them want me to close the thread. So to everyone reading this, if you want the thread to be closed, kindly reply a "YES" or "NO" otherwise.

This thread might be used as a thread for some to gain "post count" instead of really participating in it.

"Quantumization" or "Quantum" is just a theory as of today and there is no direct relationship that has been proven causing the creation of the universe. Since you too caught my attention and brought up a new idea(No, really, I'm not kidding) by the mean of "thermal fluctuation", I now highly suspect that the creation of the universe that has to be triggered by the mean of entropy and enthalpy of nothingness(generated by quantum fluctuation).

Since quantum fluctuation cannot itself create such a great big bang, there has to be another fundamental entity and to fulfill that, enthalpy or say, heat energy caused by an abnormality in Quantum world(say it caused because of entropy).

But the question arising now is the creation of fundamental properties of nature, time, space and matter. As I mentioned in previous post in another thread, for a physical action to happen, time, space and matter have to work at an instant. But before the universe came into existence, there wasn't any time! If there was no time, how could the "short interval of time" statement be even true?

Once again, as I mentioned in my previous answers and the video which answers, this proves that an unknown power arranged things so precisely and in a manner that space, time and matter worked out at an instant to create a universe. The scientific reasons behind these are unknown and are being researched.
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#9
(09-24-2019, 01:16 PM)HariVP Wrote:  Field fluctuations
A quantum fluctuation is .....


@HariVP Please kindly stop copy-and-paste content from Wikipedia. Full copy of large number of paragraphs. Wow. Smile

If every member did the same thing, this forum would disappear from Google search very quickly due to serious plagiarism. Please understand.

And this is also against the forum rule #5 @deanhills, @perryoo11 or @Dynamo


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#10
(09-24-2019, 05:49 PM)tryp4vps Wrote:  @HariVP Please kindly stop copy-and-paste content from Wikipedia. Full copy of large number of paragraphs. Wow. Smile

If every member did the same thing, this forum would disappear from Google search very quickly due to serious plagiarism. Please understand.

And this is also against the forum rule #5 @deanhills, @perryoo11 or @Dynamo
True.  Have removed the last post of @HariVP Agreed with @tryp4vps.  

@HariVP Try and contribute your own thoughts rather than the thoughts of others.  It's always good to read up things, but more important is to understand and rework all of what you've read in your own mind first, and then provide us with your original thoughts.
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