[Manal]

In fact, there are very few people I've seen, who are devoted to praising God expecting nothing in return.

If you expect nothing good back from religion, then what's the point of worshipping it?

People believe in God because it's a hope that whatever they're going through, shall pass. Religion is a way of conveying goodness in people.
Let's just consider me, I have/had super evil desires like anarchy and bla bla but guess what eliminated those desires? Religion. If I do or expect bad against a person, karma will do the same or more to you in the future or in the afterlife.

I'm not saying Athiest people are bad and reckless, but I don't disagree that most mass-shootings and act of terrorism is affiliated with people who have been distanced from their religion. If you understand the true context of religion, none of it promotes violence against any entity.

Talking about expecting, as stated above, Religion is hope and miracles are the act of God. Nothing is random in this world. Everything has a pattern and reason behind why it is happening.

Can a 3-pound piece of flesh is capable of holding the ultimate truth of the Universe? No. As always, I believe in God, and his creation and everything that happens happens for a reason.

[Sn1F3rt]

Well, after a while, I got an issue to present deliberations. As always @Manal, your view is also quite challenging to answer, but probably I'd been a little ambiguous in the last post.

What I'd meant is this : we know that not everyone believes so strongly in God but there are always a few events which occur in his/her life, which changes the outlook of the person and he starts worshipping God. No issues here. However, what I'd meant by "expecting something in return" is the materialistic possessions this world offers. Praying for good health, protection from unnecessary trouble is alright, but here what I've to say is that praying and worshipping expecting God to turn you rich overnight or expecting him to make you pass in your examinations is nowhere something supposed to be even called a moral action. I've seen believers turning atheists and atheists turning believers owing to the events that occur in their lives, but I'm not interested in all that as a part of my argument. I'm only interested in people asking for "things" in return if worshipping and organizing such huge pujas and blah blah.. complete sh*t.

I'm rather a believer in spirit rather than what you'd mean by God. I'm sure you'd know that I mean and I don't need to explain here.

Also, well I'm against your argument that miracles are the act of God. Of course, nothing is random in this world, but everything has a logic to it. What you consider a miracle might just be a chance ... Who knows? It's yours and my personal beliefs and I wouldn't demean any of them.

Would like to end with a last argument. Science might not be able to explain some phenomenon ... Agreed. But don't forget am that centuries ago it was believed that the earth was flat, and science proved it wrong "much later", and now we've humans travelling to the space, that very void which orthodox people once feared as falling off the "flat" Earth.

Kind regards,

[Manal]

Well, after a while, I got an issue to present deliberations. As always @Manal, your view is also quite challenging to answer, but probably I'd been a little ambiguous in the last post.

What I'd meant is this : we know that not everyone believes so strongly in God but there are always a few events which occur in his/her life, which changes the outlook of the person and he starts worshipping God. No issues here. However, what I'd meant by "expecting something in return" is the materialistic possessions this world offers. Praying for good health, protection from unnecessary trouble is alright, but here what I've to say is that praying and worshipping expecting God to turn you rich overnight or expecting him to make you pass in your examinations is nowhere something supposed to be even called a moral action.

What you wrote is too big for me to read. But this caught my attention. Yes, asking God to make you rich overnight is indeed a materialistic want(not even need).

But I'm strictly against that "pass your exam" as this goes very much personal;----;. I would put that in a "need" thing, not "want" lel.
(this last line is an absolute joke but means a lot to me so pls don't get offended and if not, disregard it as a joke ;-

[rudra]

I think i am posting against my better judgements here. cause belief and logic are not very good bedfellows. lol

What I meant by my previous post is, I have deep longings for a being who could read my mind and who could express compassion somehow , to me, when I'm torn/hurt/broken down. It could certainly be a very good person with exceptional insight into human psyche.

But i don't see much point in the concept of God. It solely exists in our mental world and may inspire some to be good, do good etc. But it can and is often misconstrued misinterpreted and misused.

I vehemently oppose the idea that most atrocities committed in this world are by people who have somehow distanced themselves from religion. it is quite the opposite.

Anarchy is not an evil idea. Nor is nihilism. Ideas are just that. ideas.

evil is what insane / deranged/ shortsighted / hoodwinked / brainwashed / megalomaniac / criminal .... people end up committing sometimes.

Note that I didn't mention Psychopath. being a psychopath is not automatically being evil or having greater capacity for it, just like being non-religious does not mean you have greater capacity for evil. if anyone thinks people need religion to save them from evil, then that's his choice. but claiming that it has to be true for everyone is an all too common failure of imagination and logic, though very understandable.

So to reiterate, getting too deep into one type of idea, worldview, interpretation of things; so much so that one fails to see others' point of view, one fails to hold multiple different (and even incompatible) angles with a certain objectivity, is where the root of evil often is. it is a means of the people with severe lack of imagination and compassion.

but alas we can't effectively teach those. This is why I'm very interested in AI.