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Mars Civilization - Feasible or not?
#1
Hello friends,

Finally found some respite after two weeks of strenous club duties. So today I'm gonna discuss about Mars exploration, some recent developments and upcoming missions. Well I've been following this content ever since I've watched the movie 'Mission Mangal' as that was quite appealing to me.

So first let's talk about the topic of this thread itself - Is a civilization on Mars possible AND practically feasible? There are a number of factors which are gone play a role in deciding this. Of course, there's surviving conditions for human beings that is the topmost priority. But that's not all. There are many more things which have to be taken care of, if we're thinking about establishing a proper civilization on Mars. When I mentioned feasibility, other things like technology might be developed but the main area of concern, as of now, is economic feasibility. The budget of the Mangalyaan mission by ISRO was around INR 400 crore, whereas it was around 5 times this for NASA's Curiosity Rover. These things clearly state that it's not gonna be possible, at all to carry humans to Mars if such a tiny satellite carrying a Alto sized rover, can incur such high costs. Think if it was a hundred humans instead of that rover. The budget would've to be a thousand times compared to the former. Who's gonna issue these costs? The first and foremost concern is economic viability, which has to be significantly taken care of.

Now let's speak of a very recent development by NASA's Curiosity Rover, just a couple of days ago. Here's the article for everyone's reference: https://www.news18.com/amp/news/buzz/nas...95423.html : and it's worth a careful read. It highlights what a great discovery the rover has made by asserting that Mars has 30% more oxygen in it's atmosphere than expected. The reason of this huge spike is still unknown, which is certainly not due to processes like photosynthesis as living organisms lack on Mars. This is a great food for thought for scientists, as well as for all of us. This will give rise to be avenues and change of our concepts regarding Mars, which will eventually lead to higher developments.

The last thing of my post today would be the NASA's 2020 mission to Mars which will again pave roads to many unknown facts about the Red Planet, which will subsequently lead to better knowledge of the Martian surface, as the Rover shall land and study the surface of the planet.

With these points in mind, come on guys, let's talk of space science, Martian Missions and possiblity of life on the planet. Eagerly waiting for your responses.

Regards,
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#2
Life on Mars is not possible. Conditions for life (like water and atmosphere) are not there to sustain life at a natural aspect. From an artificial point of view, it is possible, but only if we terraform the planet step by step.

Terraforming Mars is not feasible, yet, because of money. The simplistic mechanic of economy and money, draws us back from evolution. Think about how many  projects do not get implemented because of economic reasons, from investments to profits, from patents to politics, from power to control. In this context, even thinking about Mars is a huge step.

Like this is not enough, conspiracy theories and religion do not even allow such thinking. What you even dare to think is blasphemy, because if there is life on some other planet, then Earth is no longer the project of God, human is no longer the most important creature in image of God, and even God no longer exists because Bible is a lie. Yes, you may need to confess. Smile

Now, if life would exist on another planet (even a simple bacteria), imagine the poverty generated from an economical standpoint (as we are not alone and corporations will want control of Universe); plus the chaos from a moral perspective - because genesis through God becomes invalid, and we simply become some smart monkeys (consuming) terraforming our own planet with greed.
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#3
(11-21-2019, 09:50 PM)FreeBSD Wrote:  Like this is not enough, conspiracy theories and religion do not even allow such thinking. What you even dare to think is blasphemy, because if there is life on some other planet, then Earth is no longer the project of God, human is no longer the most important creature in image of God, and even God no longer exists because Bible is a lie. Yes, you may need to confess. Smile
You should not post something against a religion. On the other hand i think you are right, life is not possible on Mars.I have never read about these things but today when i saw this topic i searched and read about the old experiments on Mars. After reading all of the information, i am thinking that life is not possible on Mars yet but maybe in future. As Soham gave the link about previous experiments, it makes me feels like maybe life is possible at Mars. But as you have mentioned that water and atmosphere is not sustain, i think it is maybe possible in future that maybe those ice turns into water. But i think it may require a long time ( years ).

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#4
living on mars is surely possible. certainly possible and a necessity. an asteroid falling on earth and wiping us is a very probable scenario. so i think it is not a question of whether it is possible to expand to other rocks near and far but how..

the financial cost is not going to stop us if suddenly we discover tomorrow that a massive rock is coming towards earth and if all of us on earth work together and build a few massive bombs and rockets to carry those and then target the rock effectively, then we will do so. This is the magic of human beings. we come together when we really need to. It might end up being a similar scenario. May be we will find that colonizing mars or some other planet or satellite will be more economically viable in such a scenario. then we will run for that.

Also for a sustainable self-sufficient economy there, i think we will need AI and robots . At very high level of functionality. But yes..we are already on our way ...

If we survive long enough ..that is dont wipe ourselves in some freak accident, then we will be there within the next 100 years ..i am sure.
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#5
In my opinion, Mars civilization is a good aim/a good topic and I do believe that humanity will most likely conquer it within the next 2 decades, however, however interesting space exploration might be, we still need to prioritize taking good care of our own planet first before spending billions on mars, just a few weeks ago we got to know of that destructive fire raging in the amazon which was also rumored to be started by the brazilian government to clear space, that kind of idiotic stuff will kill us before we even step on mars
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#6
@FreeBSD, @Rehan, @rudra Well yeah, life on Mars is definitely possible and substantially the present set of information justifies that. As we all know, Mars is further away from the sun than us. The fact remains that the ice on Mars will never melt on its own, but that doesn't end the possibility of human life sustainability there. Water in the liquid form was actually found on Mars but that's not at all drinkable due to presence of toxic chemicals in it, that can be fatal to humans. Oxygen is sufficient there to allow us to breathe and as I'd said in the OP, 30% more than expected Oxygen has been found there.

@Honey I do quite agree with you, and that's exactly why I talked about economic feasibility earlier. It's a hell lot of investment, and afterall a sheer experimentation, as there's a huge difference in sending a satellite or a Rover or two astronauts to Mars, and in sending a whole bunch of humans whom you wish to permanently settle there. With the present economic affairs, it seems next to impossible, however, things are changing rapidly and the global economic structure is undergoing great development and in a few decades, this project shouldn't be that impossible to think of, as is today. It's my personal firm belief that we'll definitely make it to Mars one day.

Regards,
Sayan Bhattacharyya,

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#7
So, this thread is about "Mars Colonization" by us, the poor little Earthlings that we are. My short answer is a big No. Mars colonization by mankind is a fantasy that belongs to the SciFi realm.

Of course, I'm all for Mars Exploration; this is necessary to gain knowledge and understanding with the accumulation of data from the multidisciplinary studies conducted on-board of those missions and, ultimately, may become a good investment when 'something' come up from out there. But, the leap from the exploration to colonization is just absurd at this point (ok, may be not so in Hollywood movies.)

Human beings are a "product" of Life processes on our Mother Earth, this simply means that we can't survive outside its limits. The list of the conditions that Earth provides, and that we take for granted, is so long (in fact it's an entire Ecology course) that it's futile to cite them here (gravity, atmosphere (if any), atmospheric pressure, radioactivity, temperature, air composition in case of an atmosphere, water, food chain...)

Please folks, we know enough on Mars to acknowledge that the harshest spot on Earth will still look like paradise compared to any spot on Mars. And, Colonizing Mars in sealed self-sustaining bunkers isn't a bright idea either, even if it becomes possible. So let's just preserve and cherish what we already have and enjoy.... because (fantasy aside) that's all we got.

When Earth is doomed, we are doomed too. Always remember: we are part of it. We don't call it Mother Earth for nothing.

My take on this "sudden interest" on Mars is that those Greedy Big Corps (with the backing of their governments, of course) are no longer satisfied with pillaging, trashing and sucking up LIFE out of the Earth and its inhabitants, but are now targeting the Moon then Mars... for their raw material.... for their own profit nothing else (no saving humanity, no escaping the doomsday B.S...)
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#8
@fChk That's your considered view. Well with the present state of affairs and rate of increase of population, the Earth wouldn't be able to sustain the whole of humankind, with increasing pollution, industrialization and urbanization. And says why it belongs to the SciFi genre. It very much is related with the reality, and don't forget we already have a Rover on the Mars.

To update on my thread, the Indian Mangalyaan mission completed 5 years of the 6 year planned mission. Here's the post, and worth a read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiato...2019-09-25
Sayan Bhattacharyya,

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#9
(12-04-2019, 06:29 PM)sohamb03 Wrote:  @fChk That's your considered view. Well with the present state of affairs and rate of increase of population, the Earth wouldn't be able to sustain the whole of humankind, with increasing pollution, industrialization and urbanization. (...)
Why should it ?

Every ecosystem tends to an equilibrium given the forces at play. Indeed, since the Industrial revolution (3 centuries ago) human-beings' footprint on Nature's ecosystems has gotten larger and larger (this is how Capitalism thrives!) The Earth's response will just tend to adjust to a new equilibrium where the conditions for the survival of mankind isn't optimal thus curtailing its nuisance on Nature's ecosystems !... That's how it works.

And if we don't succeed/survive on Earth, we won't (and don't deserve to ) succeed/survive anywhere else in the Universe at large, IMHO.

What's killing us is this disease that's called Capitalism and the greedy for-ever profit/growth mentality that it inculcates to its disciples... Let's start here to tackle the real problem of the current misery that's facing the 99% of the World population... and not get carry away with the silly idea, promoted by the percent-ers (1%) -via movies.. etc-, that our solution is extra-terrestrial.


(12-04-2019, 06:29 PM)sohamb03 Wrote:  (...) And says why it belongs to the SciFi genre. It very much is related with the reality, and don't forget we already have a Rover on the Mars.
.. because it does. Having one (or an armada of) Rover(s) up there, doesn't make human inhabitation of Mars possible :-)

Fifty years ago, NASA claimed to have put a Man on the Moon (I'm not saying they didn't, but I'm always cautious, when it comes to US propaganda...) and, here we are today... as far away from it as ever.

Look, I understand your enthusiasm for that idea (especially if your country is involved in the exploration effort) but facts are facts.
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#10
(12-06-2019, 06:34 AM)fChk Wrote:  What's killing us is this disease that's called Capitalism and the greedy for-ever profit/growth mentality that it inculcates to its disciples... Let's start here to tackle the real problem of the current misery that's facing the 99% of the World population... and not get carry away with the silly idea, promoted by the percent-ers (1%) -via movies.. etc-, that our solution is extra-terrestrial.

Great discussion. I'm going along the route of over population more than capitalism killing this earth. Capitalism just gets worse the more people are involved in the game. I find it difficult to understand that there are millions of charity groups trying to rescue small children that have been brought into this world without any planning. And indirectly their innocence is going to guarantee our downfall and self-destruction of earth.

I'm hoping that along the lines of that movie "The day after tomorrow", that before it is too late, earth is going to get its revenge on human beings and we're going to move spontaneously into an ice age, where most humans will be killed. Then after that earth may stand a chance.

I'm not as confident in this day and age that Mars is possible to be inhabited by human beings, because the ability to successfully populate Mars with its harsh living conditions may take much longer to figure out for humans, than they have time left to survive at the rapid rate of environmental destruction on earth. Yes technically human beings are brilliant, however they're also their own worst enemies. Technically they could work on a plan if the species could survive at the level of progress they're at right now, but I'm almost certain they're going to have to experience a major correction of earth in the near future, when earth can't handle the destruction at the hands of human beings any longer.
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