[OldMeister]

Hello everyone. i have seen on the news 2 days ago that there was an explosion in something the lebanon country claims it is a "firework factory". the explosion was looking like a nuke just went off there but experts says it does not a nuke bomb. because if it was. the people in the city would be dead by now. according to the yesterday news there are 100 who died from the explosion and 4000 people who just got severely wounded. i would like to hear your opinion guys about the mysterious explosion and what do you think have happened? was it real a nuke that set off that the goverment hide from us?
here is a video about the explosion:

[Mashiro]

According to several local news that I've read and heard on the radio the explosion was caused by a chemical substance called ammonium nitrate. This chemical substance is used in many ways to manufactor different kinds of explosives to simple stuff like fireworks and much more. It is highly explosive. Why did it explode? According to sources it was NOT stored properly and safely. We're talking about 2750 tons of ammonium nitrate that exploded due to wrong handling and storage. FYI: ammonium nitrate is also used for gardening as salt in fertilizers.

Sources:
- https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/beirut...n-139.html (German - use Google Translate or similar)
- https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article2...eldet.html (German - use Google Translate or similar)
- https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/05/middl...index.html
- https://www.cnet.com/how-to/beirut-explo...n-tuesday/
- https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-53664064

The exploision happened and actually as it usually is they can say it was caused by whatever they want but it should be very easy to prove a high level of ammonium nitrate and I assume that somewhere records exist that prove that ammonium nitrate was stored at that location. If you check the news article it looks like it was slowly "cooking" there. Like you know when chemicals are in their reaction phase they can cause really annoying and strong smell.

Could that have been avoided? Yes, I think it could have been. Proper storage, handling and most importantly maybe periodical monitoring.

[deanhills]

Moved to "General Chat" Forum, because I want OldMeister to get a quality credit for his opening post.  

I've got very skeptical feelings about the press.  Like just to take the Corona Virus, the news reporting along the lines of conspiracy theories and slanted news is amazing.  Stats are terrible.  And problem is when your news presenters use so called experts and specialists  to comment "with authority" on topics and some times it's so obvious how they want to influence the viewer in a certain track of thinking.  Like CNN for example.  The CNN is obviously Democratically motivated, but I find it pretty insulting how they are trying to push their political line down the world's throats as "fact".  

So same thing about the nuclear blast.  I know that in at least one country in the Middle East has been warning the US and the rest of the world of a nuclear blast happening in the Middle East for decades now as a way of getting sympathy from the US in supporting their cause.  So I imagine in the same way the Media in that country has been used by politically motivated owners of the media to brain wash the public about "the nuclear blast to happen" has made that society receptive of discussing a possibility like that.

I agree with you @OldMeister.  The possibility of it being a nuclear blast is almost impossible, except for the content of the rumour that has been created. The rumour is real.  But if it had really been a nuclear blast, every one would have known for sure.  I'm totally with @"Hidden Refuge" on this who as per usual has done a thorough quality research on the topic.  This kind of blast has happened in almost every country in the world in some way or the other - like with chemical blasts due to bad maintenance, faulty equipment of human error.  Except because this is Lebanon with its history of terrorism and civil unrest, and also lots of rumour mongering to brain wash people in politics, the worst is feared.  Let's just hope the rumour of a nuclear blast doesn't become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[OldMeister]

Thanks for moving it @deanhills
i find it hard to believe it is something simple such as a simple "Chemical blast" from "fireworks factory". i am sure that there was a hidden war ammunation factory which was hidden by the government and due to human fault it got blasted and burned to the ground. i never seen such a huge blast even what you sent @Hidden Refuge about that texas when it happened in 1947. i am sure it wasnt that kind of huge blast. i have feeling that the material that was found was ammonium Nitrate. but my theory that there was more kind of explosions. the kind that lebanon dont want the world to know.

[Mashiro]

^

So, you didn't even read a small bit of what I have written in my previous post. Or even checked a few of the sources I mentioned? There are more sources available if these sources aren't enough for you. Pretty much all news sources from a lot of countries around the world report the same about this incident.

No one was even remotely talking about "fireworks factory". I don't know where you have pulled this idea out.

2750 tons of ammonium nitrate exploded!

According to several local news that I've read and heard on the radio the explosion was caused by a chemical substance called ammonium nitrate. This chemical substance is used in many ways to manufactor different kinds of explosives to simple stuff like fireworks and much more. It is highly explosive. Why did it explode? According to sources it was NOT stored properly and safely. We're talking about 2750 tons of ammonium nitrate that exploded due to wrong handling and storage. FYI: ammonium nitrate is also used for gardening as salt in fertilizers.

Sources:
- https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/beirut...n-139.html (German - use Google Translate or similar)
- https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article2...eldet.html (German - use Google Translate or similar)
- https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/05/middl...index.html
- https://www.cnet.com/how-to/beirut-explo...n-tuesday/
- https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-53664064

The exploision happened and actually as it usually is they can say it was caused by whatever they want but it should be very easy to prove a high level of ammonium nitrate and I assume that somewhere records exist that prove that ammonium nitrate was stored at that location. If you check the news article it looks like it was slowly "cooking" there. Like you know when chemicals are in their reaction phase they can cause really annoying and strong smell.

Could that have been avoided? Yes, I think it could have been. Proper storage, handling and most importantly maybe periodical monitoring.

It's not like I mentioned ammonium nitrate a few times already. It's not like almost all sources report about ammonium nitrate being the cause of the explosion.


Few more sources from other news sites:
- https://www.npr.org/2020/08/07/899776352...6876483987
- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/a...-in-hangar (even if "fireworks" is mentioned here... read the article... they are still taking about the same 2750 tons of ammonium nitrate - most likely because fireworks are made of ammonium nitrate as many other explosives are)
- https://www.wired.com/story/tragic-physi...on-beirut/


Honestly... if people still don't have an understand how dangerous ammonium nitrate generally is... can't be helped with. It is simple a very reactive chemical subtance. It was stored in a hangar under the wrong conditions and caused a massive explosion that was possibly easily amplified by what else was stored around the area of that hanger and could have been explosive or flamable.


I'm slowly out of here for good. No way. That's a few levels too low to begin with.

[deanhills]

@"Hidden Refuge"  You are correct of course.  I watched a documentary about this on BBC last night, and they showed the enormous crater in the exact spot of Silo 12 in the Beirut harbour where thousands of tonnes of ammonium nitrate (chemical fertilizer) had been stored. What a HUGE blunder by the port authorities and the Government of Lebanon. The storage was very irresponsible.  What happened was that the ammonium nitrate was confiscated from a Russian owned freighter in bad repair as far back as 2013.  The material was then allowed to stay there for all of the time - deteriorating more and more. Problem was what to do with the materials and typical Government chaos style they couldn't come to a solution so the material just kept deteriorating until it started to combust. Apparently before the final BIG blast happened there had been smaller ones that triggered the final one.

The Beirut harbour authorities had been warning the Government to do something to remove the tonnes of ammonium nitrate and since the Government is so chaotic and irresponsible there was no responsibility taken for dealing with the ammonium nitrate.  Not sure how they are going to blame the Government as they have a new Government in place for only 6 months. The current Lebanese Government hasn't ruled out that the situation could have been created externally, i.e. foul play pointing in the direction of Iran.  Politics!  I doubt it though.  Lebanon has been under corrupt Government for years and years - management has been absolutely corrupt, like way beyond what anyone can imagine in a worst case scenario - people have had to Govern themselves mostly.  Nothing moved, everything was chaos.  So for me it would have made sense that the ammonium nitrate deteriorated over the six years that it was stored.  Even the storage was irresponsible but probably dealing with the matter would have involved huge costs since it involved tonnes of ammonium nitrate.  No one wanted to take responsibility for attending to the storage.

The BBC report last night was detailed and one could see how the effect and proximity of the blast had awful consequences. wow! Even two hospitals in Beirut had to be vacated and patients moved to other hospitals - with lots of overcrowding. I'm surprised so few people died - 154 so far - but apparently 5,000 have been injured and 300,000 homeless.  The low number of deaths must have to do with a society that is quite caring. It must have been a heavily populated area that had been close to the harbour.  

Even before the blast happened Lebanon was already in emergency shape with a corrupt Government previously (they have had a new Government for 6 months), a very weak currency.  To top it even more is that the largest proportion of their grain is stored in the harbor and it is not edible any longer.  This is a big crisis. They are facing severe food shortages.  Here are my favourite links for a complete coverage:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/05/world...osion.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-53683082

In the first article from the New York Times, what captured my interest was exactly how the science of the explosion works and just how combustible chemical fertilizers can be:

The science behind the blast: Why fertilizer is so dangerous.

When an explosive compound detonates, it releases gas that rapidly expands. This “shock wave” is essentially a wall of dense air that can cause damage, and it dissipates as it spreads farther out.

A mass of exploding ammonium nitrate produces a blast that moves at many times the speed of sound, and this wave can reflect and bounce as it moves — especially in an urban area like the Beirut waterfront — destroying some buildings while leaving others relatively undamaged

The explosive power of ammonium nitrate can be difficult to quantify in absolute terms, given that it depends on the age of the compound and the conditions in which it is stored. However, it could be as high as about 40 percent of the power of TNT.

At 40 percent the power of TNT, the detonation of 2,750 tons of ammonium nitrate could produce 1 pound per square inch of overpressure — defined as the pressure caused by a shock wave over and above normal atmospheric pressure — as far as 6,600 feet away. The same explosion would produce 27 p.s.i. at a distance of 793 feet — enough to flatten most buildings, and kill people either through direct trauma or by being struck by debris.

Accidental detonation of ammonium nitrate has caused a number of deadly industrial accidents, including the worst in United States history: In 1947, a ship carrying an estimated 2,000 tons of ammonium nitrate caught fire and exploded in the harbor of Texas City, Texas, starting a chain reaction of blasts and blazes that killed 581 people.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/05/world...osion.html

So bottomline @OldMeister.  For me the cause of the blast was real bad Government in Lebanon and a series of huge blunders.  The worst blunder was the decision by the Beirut harbour to confiscate tons of ammonium nitrate and to store it in the harbour.  That blunder became worse and worse the longer the storage was allowed to go unattended. I doubt this was caused from external sources or that Iran or any other country was responsible.

[ikk157]

A lot of misinformation going on here... here’s my two cents (based on what i understood, dont start attacking me):

From all of the research I’ve done since the incident, here’s what ive gathered:

6 years ago, a ship carrying 2750 tonnes of ammonium nitrate had to dock at the beirut port due to a technical issue. And upon inspection, they discovered that the ammonium nitrate payload it was carrying was not supported by any legal paperwork/permits. Hence, making it illegal. So the ship wasn’t allowed to sail and eventually the payload was unloaded and stored “temporarily” in a nearby warehouse... where it stayed there for a whopping 6 years.

Fast forward to a few days back, a firework warehouse/factory (not sure whether it was a factory or warehouse due to conflicting information) caught fire (before anyone starts saying no it’s not a firework factory/warehouse, first off do some research. Secondly, watch the video of the explosion, there’s one of someone standing right next to the warehouse! You can clearly see flashing lights and hear sounds that are characteristic of fireworks). This fire was believed to have been started by a person who was welding something on site.

Moments later, the explosion took place which killed/injured many and destroyed an insane amount of buildings, leaving well over 300,000 people homeless. The violent explosion was said to have been caused by the ammonium nitrate that I talked about earlier.

Now in theory, ammonium nitrate (a substance used in fertilizers, fireworks, explosives such as the ones used in mines, etc...) is known to **accelerate** combustion as it acts as a source of oxygen. Ammonium nitrate ALONE DOES NOT BURN, let alone explode. It needs to be mixed with other things, such as fuel, to form a violent combustion reaction, releasing a huge amount of gas rapidly, forming an explosion.

Now go back and look at where i mentioned that ammonium nitrate DOES NOT combust on its own. To everyone saying that it was just the ammonium nitrate that was the cause of the incident, chemistry proves you very wrong. There for sure was some other form of combustible material that had its combustion accelerated by the ammonium nitrate to form that explosion. It could possibly be the fireworks themselves, but we still dont know for sure.

And also, we dont quite know whether the ammonium nitrate was stored in the same warehouse as the fireworks, or if it was a neighboring warehouse. This is also one of the points that different sources seem to be in conflict with.

For a matter of fact, we can’t rely on these “experts” you guys are talking about. If you guys aren’t aware, there has been a lot of corruption in the labanese government, that’s what started protests since September of 2019... a lot is messed up with their government... and the fact that they’ve let this insane amount of ammonium nitrate stay improperly stored in a warehouse that’s right next to a thriving city is one of their irresponsible decisions, and they’re trying to cover up that they’re responsible to this explosion by any means, so we seriously can’t trust a word they or their “experts” say.

Even the locals themselves say that if anyone steps up to help them recover from this tragedy, not to send any money because their government will keep it to themselves. It’s like sending money to the people that caused this. I myself know people living there, and this is exactly what they’ve said. There’s also much more to the corruption going on there, but I’ll leave that as something for you to look up as i don’t need to get into a lot of detail on that aspect.

And please don’t aggressively attack people if you disagree... this seems to be a recurring thing here. It doesn’t hurt being nice and simply saying “I disagree on your point stating that xyz”.

[deanhills]

@ikk157  I got something different from the New York Times and BBC.  There was no fireworks.  The fire came from Warehouse 12 where the many tonnes of ammonium nitrate were stored.  The material started to combust and created fires.  And then when the fire in the warehouse got our of control, the explosion happened.  There was an article about Firemen heroes who sacrificed their lives to try and stop the blaze by going into Warehouse 12 to try and stop the fires.  Like imagine how large that silo must have been for tonnes of nitrate to have been stored in there.  

But yes, I also understood you can't light ammonium nitrate with a match.  The large explosion could only have been triggered with a large fire source.  But my understanding is it came from the ammonium nitrate that combusted in parts and caused small fires and then larger out of control ones that were responsible for the big explosion.

So yesterday (probably like @"Hidden Refuge" got frustrated with misinterpretation of info) there was a journalist woman who actually was staying in Beirut at the time of the explosion referring to it as a BOMB!  So I then understood and also forgave her, as I imagine with the background of civil war, and attacks from neighbouring countries, and islamic extremist dangers, any one hearing an explosion in Beirut would have thought it was a bomb going off.  Only people in a safe distance and unused to regular bombing, would understand it was a chemical explosion that was one of the worst yet, particularly since it was so close to a densely populated area in the harbour.

[rudra]

i think they mix oil or petroleum feul with ammonium nitrate to make bombs. that was a good information that it does not combust on its own ikk157...

now the other thing is, it is very easy to test and determine the kind of materials that was responsible for this. but i think as they are very politically unstable right now , may be they are hiding it all...

but no matter what, you cant hide nuclear material like this. China was building nuclear subs under water in caves and they still got caught. there are satellite pictures of these. you cant hide gamma ray emissions that easily. Also the aftermath would be very devastating ,, far more... even if it were to be a low power dirty bomb.

[ikk157]

@ikk157  I got something different from the New York Times and BBC.  There was no fireworks.  The fire came from Warehouse 12 where the many tonnes of ammonium nitrate were stored.  The material started to combust and created fires.  And then when the fire in the warehouse got our of control, the explosion happened.  There was an article about Firemen heroes who sacrificed their lives to try and stop the blaze by going into Warehouse 12 to try and stop the fires.  Like imagine how large that silo must have been for tonnes of nitrate to have been stored in there.  

But yes, I also understood you can't light ammonium nitrate with a match.  The large explosion could only have been triggered with a large fire source.  But my understanding is it came from the ammonium nitrate that combusted in parts and caused small fires and then larger out of control ones that were responsible for the big explosion.

So yesterday (probably like @"Hidden Refuge" got frustrated with misinterpretation of info) there was a journalist woman who actually was staying in Beirut at the time of the explosion referring to it as a BOMB!  So I then understood and also forgave her, as I imagine with the background of civil war, and attacks from neighbouring countries, and islamic extremist dangers, any one hearing an explosion in Beirut would have thought it was a bomb going off.  Only people in a safe distance and unused to regular bombing, would understand it was a chemical explosion that was one of the worst yet, particularly since it was so close to a densely populated area in the harbour.

Watch this: https://youtu.be/F-vGkIKxGAg

You can hear crackles and pops, along with seeing flashes which are characteristic of fireworks. Then skip to the 8:50 mark, and keep watching, in a few seconds you’ll see the first minor explosion, but what you’ll also see is a bunch of sparkles as well, which makes it hella obvious that they’re fireworks! 

Here’s also a video of a guy literally standing next to the warehouse (couldn’t find it on youtube so ive uploaded it to ufile.io): https://ufile.io/2xenj23f

You can clearly see the flashes of light and cracklings sound caused by fireworks. 


“But my understanding is it came from the ammonium nitrate that combusted in parts and caused small fires”

Nope, that’s not possible at all. Ammonium nitrate isn’t combustible by itself at all. You can’t even have small fires caused by it alone. Again, chemistry proves this, so there’s no point in trying to prove this fact otherwise.

The insane amount of misleading information provided by clueless media is very worrying. It’s almost as if they’re rushing to get their articles out there that they’re not too bothered to fact-check. Like wow.