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How effective are vaccines for stopping the spread of Covid 19 globally?
(04-16-2021, 08:46 PM)fChk Wrote: Yes, indeed!.. But that's just as an act of -and I quote- 'an abundance of caution'.

Here is the joint statement that has been released by the CDC and FDA on April 13th:

Thus 6 reported cases of CSVT out of 6 millions administrations. Once again 1 in a million probability and all the reported cases were Women between the ages of 18 and 48.

I would imagine the J&J freeze has something to do to counteract vaccine hesitancy in the US which is already high.

Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine had the same probability risk and it was stopped in a lot of Countries, including South Africa.

@deanhills
How did the SA authorities react to these J&J latest development?

Yes, and that's valid. No other vaccine except AZ had that reaction and the amount of bad press that brings will make it more people who are already skeptic about the vaccine -- run away. So its with good will they stopped it. And since its a specific gender from specific age range, it is definitely caused by the vaccine. Not the "freezer" as its the same as normal vaccine which is between 2°C and 8°C (36°F and 46°F). Pfizer is the only one with specific temperature requirement which required special "freezers".
No one knows what the future holds, that's why its potential is infinite
(04-17-2021, 04:09 PM)tbelldesignco Wrote: A lot of what we have been reading is it has to do with Hormones. Estrogen naturally causes blood clots and you see those chances increase exponentially when women take some form of birth control. Johnson & Johnson have reached out as of yesterday 4.16.21 seeing if Pfizer and Moderna would be willing to help them investigate, but.....


Thank you for the information, particularly about why it seems only women are suffered by these blood clot cases.

But how the Johnson & Johnson vaccine would affect the related hormones is still an unknown though.

Let's hope the company will complete the investigation as soon as possible, so as to restore the confidence of the public. Smile


(04-20-2021, 04:45 AM)Kururin Wrote: Yes, and that's valid. No other vaccine except AZ had that reaction and the amount of bad press that brings will make it more people who are already skeptic about the vaccine -- run away. So its with good will they stopped it. And since its a specific gender from specific age range, it is definitely caused by the vaccine. Not the "freezer" as its the same as normal vaccine which is between 2°C and 8°C (36°F and 46°F). Pfizer is the only one with specific temperature requirement which required special "freezers".

Nice to see you back @Kururin.  Welcome back!

For me the bottom line is that the scientists who are developing these vaccines, had to release them prematurely.  In other words, they don't have a 100% handle on the virus yet, and since there are new strains coming all of the time, due to the virus being able to "protect" itself by evolving all of the time, the vaccines that are available are in essence on trial, more than completed.  

No doubt it's probably better to take the vaccine and take your chances as the side-effects at the end of the day will far outweigh the negatives of getting the virus, as it would make sense for me that the virus will result in far more serious blood-clotting issues than the vaccine does.  At the same time, we've learned that those who come with their own anti-body issues, or have underlying health issues, or are taking hormone or any other supplements that may effect blood in any way, aren't ideal candidates for the vaccines like Phizer Oxford Astra Zeneca and Johnson&Johnson.  Like any other vaccine, I guess shortly the large pharmaceutical companies will be providing a very long list of CAUTION: not to be used for this, that or the other condition, or XYZ hormones or medications may have serious contra-indications. Or who knows, maybe they would just say straight out those taking the vaccine are doing this at their own risk. I don't think even in its best case scenario scientists will ever be able to develop a one fits all Covid 19 vaccine that is 100% safe and effective for every one.

I guess South Africans are stuck for now.  The vaccination program has basically been halted completely for the last week since we only have Johnson&Johnson vaccine.  No mention in the press of the vaccination programme resuming any time soon.  The Government has some serious decisions to make, and as with all other Governments will probably have to find a way to protect itself against future court cases.  Not an easy decision for the South African Government to resume the vaccinations and particularly not in the face of possibility of a third wave of the Covid 19 virus expecting to start soon since it is moving into winter time in the southern hemisphere.
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Just an update: I received the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine last night and oof. This dose has not been as smooth as the last for me, I've had a headache, injection site soreness and body aches. I feel like I am about 96 years old and some of the easy daily tasks are rather fatiguing. My headache does comes and go, I have chronic migraines, so these are nothing compared to what I was experiencing pre-botox, but it still is not comfortable.
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(04-23-2021, 01:36 PM)tbelldesignco Wrote: Just an update: I received the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine last night and oof. This dose has not been as smooth as the last for me, I've had a headache, injection site soreness and body aches. I feel like I am about 96 years old and some of the easy daily tasks are rather fatiguing. My headache does comes and go, I have chronic migraines, so these are nothing compared to what I was experiencing pre-botox, but it still is not comfortable.

Congrats!.. I see that you have the whole shebang as far as standard side-effects go :-) It should only last a day or 2 and what that means is that you're all set up as far as your immunization goes.

A noticeable reaction at the second dose is a sign that the first vaccination did generate a good immune response.

This post did gave me an idea of a new COVID-19 thread:
https://post4vps.com/Thread-COVID-19-Vac...-Community
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So South Africa is now well into the Third Wave of Corona Virus cases.  It's the middle of winter here.  Most affected part of South Africa is the heavily populated areas of Johannesburg, although Cape Town and Durban are catching up fast.  Johannesburg now has almost 80,000 active cases, 20,000 more active cases than a week before.  

At least the Vaccination Program is being pushed ahead and Government announced yesterday 50 plus can now also register.  Teachers are also being vaccinated in "bulk" as a priority effort.  So are retirement homes.

With the increase in Government vaccination effort, also comes chaotic attempts to get more vaccine doses and looks like Russia and China are considered good candidates after previously looking at their Vaccines with caution.  The focus is now more on getting as many people vaccinated with as many vaccines the Government can get with less focus on quality of the vaccines.

So far we've had the greatest number of vaccinated population with Johnson and Johnson and Pfizer.  I don't have much confidence in the system of Covid 19 statistics, however according to Government records the vaccination total stands at 2.6 million vaccinated.  A good percentage of those however are Pfizer vaccinations with one shot only.  Pfizer requires a booster shot within a few weeks of the first shot.

Total population in South Africa is almost 60 million, so 2.6 million is very far from the 65% needed to get to the point of "herd immunity".
Terminal
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Now it seems Test Positivity Rate(TPR) is getting reduced in our locality, we are still under Triple Lockdown. Vaccines are available for elder persons now, but not yet for everyone. I am not still vaccinated, but I have tested for covid and got negative result in both RTPCR and Antigen tests. Since then I am taking care not to get infected. Overall we expect to get back to normal after this vaccinations are almost done for young persons too.
Schools need to be reopened, but health department says only after vaccination. Vaccination seems effective in reducing the infection.


Thank you  Sweet



(06-25-2021, 10:06 PM)deanhills Wrote: With the increase in Government vaccination effort, also comes chaotic attempts to get more vaccine doses and looks like Russia and China are considered good candidates after previously looking at their Vaccines with caution.  The focus is now more on getting as many people vaccinated with as many vaccines the Government can get with less focus on quality of the vaccines.
I confess that I've never understood that attitude from them. Countries that don't produce COVID-19 vaccines should not be that picky as to which one to use, especially when rich countries are hoarding doses [1], in a sharp contrast to China's attitude.

Locally, the authorities have shifted to China's Sinopharm ever since Oxford-AstraZeneca (first obtained under the WHO COVAX mechanism) started to become harder to get when India was hit hard by the pandemic.

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[1]- The US did exactly that from the start but promised lately to share its stockpile with the rest of the World.
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(06-26-2021, 10:46 AM)fChk Wrote: I confess that I've never understood that attitude from them. Countries that don't produce COVID-19 vaccines should not be that picky as to which one to use, especially when rich countries are hoarding doses [1], in a sharp contrast to China's attitude.

Locally, the authorities have shifted to China's Sinopharm ever since Oxford-AstraZeneca (first obtained under the WHO COVAX mechanism) started to become harder to get when India was hit hard by the pandemic.

----------------------------------
[1]- The US did exactly that from the start but promised lately to share its stockpile with the rest of the World.

@fChk  I'm not a scientist, but for me there should be some caution in the order of the day when one looks at vaccines that are as far remote as China and Russia.  Those are dictator "closed" countries too, from the point of view that the reports on the efficacy of the vaccines and side effects are strictly under Government control and we don't see open discussion on the side effects. Irony also is that the virus started in China - and to this day its origin (for me anyway) is still shrouded in mystery. WHO being in cahoots with the China Government to cover up complete facts of how it happened.  I most certainly haven't forgotten, and so from an ethical point of view am most certainly not going to support anything from China that is being dumped big time in Africa.  Africa being in the middle of a totally neo-colonialization program by China as well.  I've got a moral objection here as well.

You can check the article below in Medical News Today about SinoPharm and reason why if that is the only choice I get I won't be taking it.  
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/article...de-effects

Most vaccines require at least 3 years of thorough testing before they are released for use by the public, with a long list of protocols and list of questions to ask for probing for potential side effects. I.e. if we take drugs, there are usually detailed info in a pamphlet in very fine print and a list of side-effects given that we have to check and compare so we don't take something that may create a problem for our health. So caution is thrown to the wind with the massive dumping of not fully tested vaccines, which in effect means that the millions of people who get vaccinated are really test cases.  That is what my own common sense tells me.  We have a tower of Babel of vaccines that are in some ways the same, but who are vastly different as well.  The fact that so many different vaccines are being developed, some in competition with one another, tells me the story that if and when I get vaccinated one day, it's by an experimental vaccine. Scientists aren't really completely knowledgeable as to the side effects of the vaccines.  They're taking percentages from somewhere and hoping for the best.  They've barely got experience with the side effects of vaccines of 8 months or even less than that to study.  Surely that is important to note for any individual who has to make a decision about a vaccine.  

Bottom line.  The present array of Covid 19 vaccines are only 65-79% effective. Then you get the confusion surrounding booster shots that are needed, that very few are getting.  I'd imagine the efficacy of the vaccine when no booster shot has been given drops further. So there's a 20-35% chance that the vaccine has not been effective after you took it.  So how do you know whether it's been effective or not? You don't really.  So now this vaccination effort seems to be throwing caution to the wind. Because from what I notice in Canada the Government is now saying that if you have been fully vaccinated, you don't need to go through the same hoops any longer when you enter the country.  You still have to be tested, but you don't have to be incarcerated for 3 days in a Government certified hotel any longer.  How do they allow for being asymptomatic however?  And people who relax their guard after they have been vaccinated?  One of the key dangers in my view being too many people in the same space sharing the air they breathe. Even ventilation can't compensate for heavily populated areas of airports. Traveling to densely populated cities of the world from densely populated cities create that problem.  Long lines, tired, not focusing and concentrating.  I can go on and on. Vaccines being a hit and miss in most cases.  And we haven't even discussed fraud cases yet where people submit illegal certificates of vaccination.

I think every one has to make their own "informed" decision of course.  Who knows, maybe the experimental vaccines are moving in the right direction.  Or maybe not.  I may change my mind in future, particularly when I'm ready to travel to Canada.  But hopefully by then the quality of vaccines would be more improved.  Or one would hope they would be.  As for me we still don't know where this virus is taking us.  There may be new ones waiting to make their appearance.  And there are too many differences among the vaccines.  Like with the malaria mosquito anti-medication.  Every area of the world needs to adapt the basic vaccine to their own communities.  Otherwise the malaria medication won't make a difference.  So many tourists from the US in South Africa have learned that at their own peril.  They may receive "up to date" malaria medication in the US, that is useless when they were in malaria infested areas of Africa. Some of the basics are the same, but only the malaria tablets that have been developed and adapted by scientists in South Africa for the current strain of malaria will work. Uganda is different from South Africa also with a much more serious malaria problem.  You then take the tablets that have been developed for those living in Uganda when you visit Uganda.  Ditto Covid 19.  We've seen in the press how different communities have been developing their own strain of the virus.  We still have a lot to investigate about the virus.

So I hope with Covid 19 vaccines that we will have an open discussion about its efficacy in South Africa.  So we can at least have some basic information about its pros and cons. And scientists have the freedom to test and comment honestly about the pros and cons.  Instead of dumping any vaccine for increased vaccination stats to make the Government look good. The Governments of the world are notorious for mucking things up, particularly when they are trying to get political mileage, and looks like South Africa is no exception in this any longer. I can only imagine the pressure that puts on the Public Health Specialists in still wanting the support from Government but needing to be scientifically honest as well.
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Now, who is saying vaccine may not be an effective oncoming new version of covid. And one of India's vaccine covaxin which I am vaccinated with does not accept by the US. Well don't know what is going to happend.
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