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What do you mean by Quantum fluctuation?
#11
(09-22-2019, 04:57 PM)tryp4vps Wrote:  I think we are talking about the same Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. But the uncertainty principle is not only about an uncertainty relation between momentum and position. It can also be an uncertainty relation between time and energy.

Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is applicable to all including momentum, position, time and energy. Because for randomness to happen in our realm, everything must work in one instant for the randomness to execute properly. If anything is missing, it cannot be done. A position must be specified as coordinate within the universe for the randomness to take place.

(09-22-2019, 04:57 PM)tryp4vps Wrote:  During a precise time interval, it is possible that energy (a.k.a particles) can be temporarily created out of an empty space (a.k.a out of nothing).

"Energy can neither be created nor be destroyed", unless and until if the energy is in the undiscovered form(like dark energy or matter cause we haven't studied them enough).

(09-22-2019, 04:57 PM)tryp4vps Wrote:  The idea is that although the total energy of the empty space is zero.

[Image: image.png]

Source

For energy to be converted from one form to another, there must be at least two matter present at the time compatible enough for energy transfer to happen for which can cause creation/destruction of a matter.
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#12
I don't think we can ever know because of how limited we are.  We're trapped in time and the universe transcends time.  We are trapped in our heads, as we can only really think through our own brain, and most of us assume that there is only one way of thinking - very rarely that people can think outside the box.  There are too many limitations for our minds to ever reach the real truth about the source of everything including what there was before the "big blast".  

One thing is for sure, that the history of the Universe may be totally different to how we perceive it to be.  We want to look at a source, and then say after the source, the next thing came. But maybe there is a different reality that transcends our own limited "being". So an explosion may be true, as astronomers have proven that some of the elements out in the planets are shared on earth.  So possibly that is proof of some big blast that happened a long time ago, or who knows, maybe those blasts happen frequently within a time frame we'll never grasp because of our own limited time frames.  But what happened before then and trying to find the source, I don't think we ever will be able to figure that out.  And if anyone claims they have, then maybe it's nice to have a theory, but it doesn't necessarily make it true.

So @Manal, in answer to your question, I can't see how we will ever be able to figure that out. Theories are good to have because it helps science along, but I can't see how we will be able to get to the truth when we are as limited as we are as humans.

I'm a believer myself and have consoled myself that if God wanted me to know what the source is that he'd have created me a bit more perfect than I am in order to have a much bigger and omnipotent mind to transcend time and space.  How can we ever dream to know such a huge question if we're not at least equal to the time of the Universe and our minds can reach to all of the corners of the Universe in a capacity where we live forever.  I think one would need to be in that state in order to figure out the answer to your question.
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#13
(09-22-2019, 05:24 PM)Manal Wrote:  Source

For energy to be converted from one form to another, there must be at least two matter present at the time compatible enough for energy transfer to happen for which can cause creation/destruction of a matter.


No one says during the big bang, there had only one matter created throughout the process.

And about vacuum, I think we better refer to vacuum fluctuation, which is the current topic we all should be talking about.

Source.
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#14
(09-24-2019, 10:46 AM)tryp4vps Wrote:  No one says during the big bang, there had only one matter created throughout the process.

And about vacuum, I think we better refer to vacuum fluctuation, which is the current topic we all should be talking about.

Source.

I was talking about the pre-bang scenario. Of course, many particles/matter came into existence which included matter, antimatter and etc post big bang.

We started the thread as "Quantum fluctuation", not "Vaccum fluctuation" so I think we'd better stick with the word "Quantum". But it doesn't matter either way because it is the same, isn't it?
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#15
@Manal Yes "Quantum fluctuation" and "Vaccum fluctuation" are the same thing.

I mentioned the term "Vaccum" just because you quoted a source about it first. Smile

I fully agree with you that we better stick with the term "Quantum" though. Because we should all focus on quantum physics for this topic.
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#16
Here is my limited understanding of the quantum fluctuation. It's something like the Mandela effect. Some people think the Mandela effect is an internet hoax. My experience leads me to believe otherwise.

A brief synopsis of my limited understanding of the Mandela Effect: There was a guy named Mandela who was convicted of a crime. A lot of people remember this person dying in the 80s; historical record states he died in 2013.

A quick Google search on the Mandela effect will reveal numerous instances of events and things which millions of people remember one way but historical facts record differently.

Some people suppose this is evidence that we all live in different timelines, or that some individuals or groups have at some point in time have crossed into a different universe - each of these universes would represent a quantum fluctuation.

This quantum fluctuation that allegedly created the universe could be seen as the starting point of our unique universe we all share, those of us who have encountered this universe in which this post exists: at the same time spawning infinite other universes from an infinite number of singularities, each independent of each other, with their own unique histories and physics and components.

This theory is adequate enough to explain the creation of our particular universe and other universes, but it in no way comes close to explaining what caused the quantum fluctuation that created the universes, or what caused all of these singularities to be composed of their particular components. To me, the quantum fluctuation in simple terms means the infinite small differences between one universe and another.

I don't know that science can or will explain what happened or existed before the big 'singularity' - it can only be explained by faith, and you either have it or you don't.

I personally believe existence is far too ordered to be lacking a directing consciousness.

I did not always have faith. I was not raised in a church or to follow any religion.

One day I was struggling with depression so I decided to quit my job, got rid of all of my possessions, and walked off into the woods alone. Three months later I walked out of the woods with God.

Life is very different these days.
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#17
god. fitkoh !!! you found god in three months. that's like record time ! real fast. our forefathers wrote that it could take lives spanning over ages to get God !

hehe.. joking.

one minute, I'm really hopeful and happy and really in despair the next. is this how depression feels.

lol.. again.. joking.

anyways. we are not standing at the end of science or anything. why can't people just accept that we don't know yet but we will keep trying harder and harder. why do people always need all the conclusions and solutions now !! may be one reason is mortality. i dunno.

what i know is... this is a belief too... that science will find answers to everything.

most of our answers are in the form of how or when. not why. like why gravity ? none knows. none even knows how to advance on that yet. even if one day someone finds what is behind gravity, then the question is why that. that leads to seemingly infinite regression. seemingly, cause we don't know. even infinite has many forms and meanings.

but i would like to point that there is a principle called principle of least work. nature seemingly follows simpler routes.

so we don't need to complicate things further by imagining more complex things.
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#18
As far as I understand it, and to put it in simple words:

Spots in space aren’t necessarily empty. They tend to contain some type of energy (can exist in several forms). This energy can sometimes change in different spots of empty space, this is referred to as quantum fluctuations (hence the word fluctuations). However, this is NOT a permanent change in energy. This is because it returns back to its original state.

Hope I made things as clear and simple as possible.
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#19
(11-01-2019, 09:16 AM)ikk157 Wrote:  As far as I understand it, and to put it in simple words:

Spots in space aren’t necessarily empty. They tend to contain some type of energy (can exist in several forms). This energy can sometimes change in different spots of empty space, this is referred to as quantum fluctuations (hence the word fluctuations). However, this is NOT a permanent change in energy. This is because it returns back to its original state.

Hope I made things as clear and simple as possible.

The above statement is false.

Space isn't vacuumed FYI and even the most vacuum thing would have at least 2-3 atoms present in it hence the vacuum isn't actually vacuumed. However, Quantum Fluctuation is different as it fuses up with virtual particles and particles at the 3d level, creating energy. This, however, violates law of conservation of energy. That is why this phenomenon is given the name "Quantum Fluctuation". The "quantum realm" doesn't follow up the physical law of our space and hence any object/energy/phenomenon taking place at the smallest level(Planck's constant) is called "Quantum mechanics".
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#20
(11-01-2019, 01:05 PM)Manal Wrote:  The above statement is false.

Space isn't vacuumed FYI and even the most vacuum thing would have at least 2-3 atoms present in it hence the vacuum isn't actually vacuumed. However, Quantum Fluctuation is different as it fuses up with virtual particles and particles at the 3d level, creating energy. This, however, violates law of conservation of energy. That is why this phenomenon is given the name "Quantum Fluctuation". The "quantum realm" doesn't follow up the physical law of our space and hence any object/energy/phenomenon taking place at the smallest level(Planck's constant) is called "Quantum mechanics".

Kudos my friend, you have officially confused me haha. These space and energy conversations / topics always confuse me.

You have a solid point when it comes to the fact that vacuum isn’t actually in vacuum. But even then, I think a couple of atoms is so minimal you can just not consider it.

As for quantum fluctuation, I better shut my mouth up before i end up saying something stupid Tongue
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