[tryp4vps]

It is so horrible that people still talk about this virus is man made and spread as a war to other countries. but I don't believe it. as in early report Russia blame that America produce this virus to destroy China economy specially after Huawei incidence. and after a while when America got victim of this virus then news spread that China make it for America......

Sounds like the question "where did the Corona virus come from" would have different answers for different countries.

So, Russia would tell you that the Corona virus came from the U.S.

Similarly, the U.S. media sources would say that the virus came from China.

Sadly we are all living in a world that people are still blaming each others under crisis.

[fitkoh]

I have something of a different opinion about the origins of the virus. Where did the Rona come from? It came from modern medicine.

For generations now we've been using antibiotics to treat infections. If a person is on deaths doorstep and antibiotics can save them, then antibiotics are a good thing and should be used. But now (at least here in America) people even get prescribed antibiotics as a preventative measure rather than a treatment. Over decades, the wide use of antibiotics has had 2 effects.

1. infectious agents evolve, adapt, mutate, and become stronger than the antibiotics being used
2. people develop atrophied weakened immune systems less capable of fighting infection.

Most people have heard of the common cold, and had it several times. It's a fact that some strains of common cold are a strain of corona virus. I've come to believe that "Covid 19" is actually just a strain of the common cold that has grown strong while our immune systems have grown weak. We've become so weak as a population that we can't even fight off the common cold anymore.

So we institute lockdowns, mask requirements, social distancing, and start work on vaccines. None of these do anything to fix the underlying problem - weak immune system vs evolved virus. In fact, they only make our immune systems weaker and more dependent on modern medicine. Maybe the vaccine in some months or years will allow this strain of corona virus (covid19) to be eliminated, but the next incarnation of super virus (whether it's sars or bird flu or whatever's popular in the news) will be even more virulent and more deadly. The CDC (center for disease control) in America even published a statement that there is no food you can eat to increase the power of your immune system. That's just silly to me - what, other than nutrition, can have a better impact on your immune systems potential? How can you fight infection if you aren't eating healthy food? It's almost like the CDC doesn't want people to be independently healthy, they only want us to be healthy if the medical industry can take credit for it.

I don't hold any government responsible for the Rona - it's a wider systemic problem caused by our fear of infections and reliance on modern medicine. Be strong. Take a hit. Don't be afraid of a sickness. Yes, being sick is very unpleasant. Yes, you may die. Your loved ones may die. But anyone can die at any time - struck by lightning or hit by a drunk driver. However, while the weak may die, unable to fight the Rona, the strong will live on to breed a better population. This is called evolution, or natural selection, and modern medicine will stop it dead in its tracks.

Or you can try to keep everyone alive while we all get progressively weaker. The people incapable of producing their own antibodies will multiply. The grip of modern medicine will choke harder on our personal freedoms every time a new virus comes along.

Remember that you have a choice. Caveat Emptor.

[deanhills]

@fitkoh  This is a very refreshing theory.  I wonder whether if they did research on the number of anti-biotic prescriptions and check whether there is a link with the number of Covid 19 cases.  Some areas (the hot spots) were affected more than others.  I wonder whether those areas were areas where there had been a greater abuse of anti-biotic use.  

It would also be interesting if they check the cases of Covid Virus for history of anti-biotic use whether those who had no history of anti-biotic use fared better when they were infected by the virus than those who had been regularly using anti-biotics.  No doubt they must be doing research on that as it sounds like a very viable theory to me.

I think it would be very difficult for the medical profession to ignore their "calling" of trying to save every one from the virus.  Even though common sense says so.  We already have it ingrained in the medical profession  to cure the weak, some times at the expense of the strong. Babies that have defects even before they are born are being treated to survive as long as possible with all kinds of drugs and procedures. So maybe nature is taking its revenge on that.  But human nature still wants to protect its weaker members as somehow it's teaching its medical profession that it is the ethically correct thing to do?

For me again the over population of the world is a major factor in its self-destruction.  The more people per square mile, if anti-biotics are abused, the greater the sum total effect in lowering "herd immunity". Yet have you heard any stronger measures to "halt" the population explosion other than family planning suggestions?  Again a case of medical and human ethics which seems to be getting to be a threat to the survival of the human species?

[fitkoh]

I think it would be very difficult for the medical profession to ignore their "calling" of trying to save every one from the virus.  Even though common sense says so.  We already have it ingrained in the medical profession  to cure the weak, some times at the expense of the strong. Babies that have defects even before they are born are being treated to survive as long as possible with all kinds of drugs and procedures. So maybe nature is taking its revenge on that.  But human nature still wants to protect its weaker members as somehow it's teaching its medical profession that it is the ethically correct thing to do?

For me again the over population of the world is a major factor in its self-destruction.  The more people per square mile, if anti-biotics are abused, the greater the sum total effect in lowering "herd immunity". Yet have you heard any stronger measures to "halt" the population explosion other than family planning suggestions?  Again a case of medical and human ethics which seems to be getting to be a threat to the survival of the human species?

For me, where ethics are concerned, I think it's important to present decisions with as much information as possible, and allow people to make those decisions without too much external influence. Share your theories, share your facts, and also share the things you disagree with; and once you've given all relevant information you should accept whatever decision is made. It's very hard to sway someone who has made up their mind, and usually only serves to make conflict. Not everyone was meant to walk the same path. What is bad for you may be good for your neighbor. Let your neighbor walk their path even if you don't like it. Unless you are in immediate danger of bodily harm or loss of property, we should be willing to live and let live. If you don't like how someone lives, stay away from them. The world is a very big place.

Imagine if each bottle of antibiotics came with a warning, much like a pack of cigarettes: "WARNING: Antibiotics may atrophy the auto immune response." Instead they tell you "Take only as prescribed by your doctor" or "Do not take with alcohol" - which are valuable notices, but unbalanced in that they don't present the alternate perspective. I wonder if others get pharmaceutical commercials like we do here in the US: possible side effects are always mentioned as quickly as possible, often incomprehensible, printed in the smallest font possible. Why does the medical establishment want to hide the negative side effects? If anything, these should be advertised ahead of any possible benefit, in the loudest voice and largest text possible... not hidden and obscured. Give people the information they need to make a informed decision; don't hide information so they make a choice that benefits you. I consider it blatant deception, and I don't like it.

Rather than insisting that everyone be vaccinated because "that's the only way" we'll ever get herd immunity, give people the choice. People in high risk categories such as elderly and people with immune disorders may wisely choose the vaccine - while people interested in maintaining a healthy and resilient immune system may risk defeating it naturally. Rather than issuing a mask mandate, make a mask request, and allow the citizens to choose if they want to require masks in their businesses, and allow customers to choose which businesses to shop at.

We have lost so much choice since the start of this pandemic. In my locality, a year ago, it was illegal to wear a mask in public, and seen as suspicious behavior for criminals. Now it's illegal to not wear a mask. Silly. Just plain silly.

[sagher]

Sounds like the question "where did the Corona virus come from" would have different answers for different countries.

So, Russia would tell you that the Corona virus came from the U.S.

Similarly, the U.S. media sources would say that the virus came from China.

Sadly we are all living in a world that people are still blaming each others under crisis.

Yes ! same as i said. and who cares the World GOD fathers use vaccination also for there personal affairs and interests. even also for cure from COVID-19. and that is not neglectable view of thinking. 
If we talk where it come first. so at early stage news spreading that it will happens when people of china eat BATs and after more said some special BATs those eat some kind of snakes and after some genetic changes when humans eat that kind of BATs the virus is transferred into  human jeans. and after that we hear new news on daily basis.

[tryp4vps]

Yes ! same as i said. and who cares the World GOD fathers use vaccination also for there personal affairs and interests. even also for cure from COVID-19. and that is not neglectable view of thinking. 
If we talk where it come first. so at early stage news spreading that it will happens when people of china eat BATs .....

The problem is that now many countries think about the origin of the Corona virus based on their own political views.

That explains why Russia is blaming the U.S., and the U.S is also blaming China, and so on.

But in fact they should think purely based on scientific evidences, and nothing else.

[deanhills]

But in fact they should think purely based on scientific evidences, and nothing else.

I think scientists do think that way.  But of course at present there is no scientific evidence.  Just scientific theories.  Some of the theories link SARS to Covid 19.  That Covid 19 was a product of a SARS virus laboratory experiment in China that went wrong.  I heard the theory from a public health epidemiologist who is a bio statistician.  Which was interesting to me.  As until I heard it from the public health epidemiologist direct, I thought it was just one of many conspiracy theories doing the rounds. Looks as though it is a theory that is presently looked at by scientists.  With evidence not found yet.

[Honey]

The problem is that now many countries think about the origin of the Corona virus based on their own political views.

That explains why Russia is blaming the U.S., and the U.S is also blaming China, and so on.

But in fact they should think purely based on scientific evidences, and nothing else.

Personally I think It was more of a biological weapon, USA was one of the most infected/affected countries from coronavirus, the virus is till on rampage there showing no signs of stopping, and the number of people who were infected and who have died is just astounding..Whereas China (although of a similar size) was not nearly infected to the same stage..

Either china is hiding their stats (could be likely), or the virus was engineered to target the USA and If so they were very successful in their target.

As for allegations, I think its too soon to show proof of the virus's origin, but the first case was identified in China, and there was also some news about some whistleblowers in china who were shutoff, all in all very suspicious. So I think that China may have engineered the virus with collaboration of Russia...but ofcourse it would be years before we can really identify who was at fault.

[fChk]

@fitkoh

I've read your post (#172) and although I kind of understand the logic you're trying to build, I must say the reasoning is flawed at several levels.

1- I will assumed that by the 'Rona' you mean the SARS-CoV-2, the COVID-19 inducing agent/virus.

2- Antibiotics are antimicrobial drugs, meaning active against bacteria of all kinds and certain class of fungi. They are useless against viral infections, including COVID-19.
Obviously, the misuse and abuse of antibiotics is BAD either in Medecine or in BigAG. This is something that has been known ever we discovered drug resistances in Bacteria. Thus the problem isn't a medical one but in the health system that encourages antibiotics prescription at every turn, as you do in the US and elsewhere...
Responsible antibiotics use doesn't weaken the immune response as you suggested but just give the organism a fighting chance till the adaptive immune response kicks-in (which always takes time to develop and deploy.) Thus, increasing the survival rate among the weakest among us... Hence why people don't die anymore of diseases that wreaked havoc before their discovery and how they work.... which led to their industrial production and use..

3- I've already posted some biology bullet-points in 2 previous posts in this same thread as to (a) what are Human CoronaViruses (HCoVs) and (b) how Human-beings fight against viral infection:
-> a/ https://post4vps.com/Thread-Corona-Virus...5#pid34515

-> b/ https://post4vps.com/Thread-Corona-Virus...6#pid34526

4- If we set aside the various conspiracy theories, the current consensus among the scientific communities concerning the SARS-CoV-2 has to do with the ongoing destruction of natural habitats/ecosystems due to the ever-expansion of Urbanization (as a by-product of the widespread adoption of Capitalism) which put human-beings in close contact with once isolated animal life, hence increasing the chances of zoonosis.

In that perspective, this whole COVID-19 drama is just yet another fallout of the Crazy neo-liberal capitalistic model that the whole World is implementing... including 'Communist' China!!..

The bad news is that this is just the beginning... Welcome to the 21th century!

[fitkoh]

@fitkoh

I've read your post (#172) and although I kind of understand the logic you're trying to build, I must say the reasoning is flawed at several levels.

1- I will assumed that by the 'Rona' you mean the SARS-CoV-2, the COVID-19 inducing agent/virus.

2- Antibiotics are antimicrobial drugs, meaning active against bacteria of all kinds and certain class of fungi. They are useless against viral infections, including COVID-19.
Obviously, the misuse and abuse of antibiotics is BAD either in Medecine or in BigAG. This is something that has been known ever we discovered drug resistances in Bacteria. Thus the problem isn't a medical one but in the health system that encourages antibiotics prescription at every turn, as you do in the US and elsewhere...
Responsible antibiotics use doesn't weaken the immune response as you suggested but just give the organism a fighting chance till the adaptive immune response kicks-in (which always takes time to develop and deploy.) Thus, increasing the survival rate among the weakest among us... Hence why people don't die anymore of diseases that wreaked havoc before their discovery and how they work.... which led to their industrial production and use..

3- I've already posted some biology bullet-points in 2 previous posts in this same thread as to (a) what are Human CoronaViruses (HCoVs) and (b) how Human-beings fight against viral infection:
-> a/ https://post4vps.com/Thread-Corona-Virus...5#pid34515

-> b/ https://post4vps.com/Thread-Corona-Virus...6#pid34526

4- If we set aside the various conspiracy theories, the current consensus among the scientific communities concerning the SARS-CoV-2 has to do with the ongoing destruction of natural habitats/ecosystems due to the ever-expansion of Urbanization (as a by-product of the widespread adoption of Capitalism) which put human-beings in close contact with once isolated animal life, hence increasing the chances of zoonosis.

In that perspective, this whole COVID-19 drama is just yet another fallout of the Crazy neo-liberal capitalistic model that the whole World is implementing... including 'Communist' China!!..

The bad news is that this is just the beginning... Welcome to the 21th century!

1. Yes, you're correct on this. This is my way of taking power away from the "global pandemic" madness - by referring to it by a cutesy pet name. Think "Springtime For Hitler And Germany"

2. I can see your point on this; however, look at long term effects over generations. While we're preserving the lives of people unable to fight off serious ailments with their own autoimmune response, we're also reproducing people incapable of fighting off serious ailments with their own autoimmune response. Over time and generations this creates a larger portion of the population entirely dependent on medical science to live - weak, sickly, human beings incapable of taking care of themselves. I believe we, as a species, deserve better. Yes, you saved a life with that antibiotic. Next generation, you will need to save 4 lives... then 16, 64, etc. Until there are so many humans with weak immune systems that the medical industry is overwhelmed trying to save them all ie global pandemic.

4. I 100% agree with this. However, I think the proximity to animal life is the tip of the iceberg not the root of the problem. Farmers have lived near animal life since humans have been farming. It's likely that farmers also pick up microbes from animals. However, farmers typically don't live in crowded urban centers, so overwhelming tranmission isn't likely. The real problem (in my opinion) isn't our proximity to wild animal populations, but our proximity to each other: Our cities have become so crowded that we literally have millions of people stacked on top of each other, enabling 1 person on a bus or a train or at work to infect hundreds or more  in a short period of time. The only viable solution I see to the issue of ever-growing and more frequent/deadly infections is the decentralization of the world's urban centers.