[deanhills]

I personally think that we shouldn't mix the vaccines. We need to follow a straight line so we can assert that no surprise will arise in the future.

That would make great sense for sure. Not to mix the vaccines. In the meanwhile Governments should also let those know who have been vaccinated that they still need to take all the precautions. As there may be a small percentage of people where the vaccine does not work. There may also be people who are positive for Covid 19 and don't know it.

[mzltest]

That would make great sense for sure.  Not to mix the vaccines.  In the meanwhile Governments should also let those know who have been vaccinated that they still need to take all the precautions.  As there may be a small percentage of people where the vaccine does not work.  There may also be people who are positive for Covid 19 and don't know it.

Yeah.Here some vaccines are approved by the government to use in some provinces ,offering free(This drug is free,but you still need to pay for the human cost etc.) injections.However they still need to comply the epidemic-controlling rules like wearing face masks on public transportation,and have to be tested negative when leaving their area when new infected cases are reported there.

It doesn't mean after some injections you are golden.Even it's 99% effective - you never know who is in the 1%.And,of course,the efficiency depend on the vaccine type(mRNA vaccines seems to be better),concentration,personal situations etc.

[Sn1F3rt]

Well Indian vaccines, I can't talk of effectiveness but there's danger for sure. Few days ago it was said that the medical staff will be given the vaccine, and umm ... the results aren't very pleasing. A few doctors lost their lives soon after being administered the vaccine. Others are having various types of problems, and many people got infected even after taking the vaccine ... LOL

The company manufacturing the vaccine defends themselves by saying that those people who passed away had earlier illnesses and the vaccine interfered with those. Alright, for a moment let's say I agree that each one of those otherwise healthy doctors had xyz problem, is it not their responsibility to ensure that a proper health checkup is done before administering the vaccine to them?

How is this loss of lives justified then? And then there are our politicians, well instead of taking the vaccine first in order to encourage the people to take the vaccine they are standing at the end of the queue to take the vaccine at last, after looking into the stats of people taking the vaccine. It's all pretty much a mess here. 

[fChk]

What I would like to see from the medical community is a better job of identifying persons which NEED a vaccine or other treatment rather than making blanket policies that everyone has to abide by. (..........)

That's not a medical issue!... It's a policy matter concerning a public health issue, hence, it has everything to do with your local politics.

The medical community's only job is to get you vaccinated if 1-there is a vaccine and 2-you need/want one. They can't compel you to get one... Your government can!.. under whatever slogan he wants.

If your point is valid, how can any serious scientist in the bioscience field assert that a vaccine is the only way we'll ever acquire herd immunity to the current pandemic? (...)

As far as I'm aware of no one does(/should claim that); simply, because it's not true. Do you know why it's not true?.. because there is another way, the time-tested brute-force way, that is the old-fashioned way, which is let things sort itself out without doing anything!!..

That way too would work and it will also lead to a herd immunity among the survivors of the pandemic!.. So the difference is in the final statistics in the human loss of lives!.. If that's not important, then sure, go for it!..

I did post a link to a previous post of mine on why a vaccine is important, but I think I'll quote it here again:

Viruses don't die!... they are not even considered as 'living beings'! technically speaking.. Yep!.. that's right.

Viruses are just tiny bits of DNA OR RNA packed in a proteic Capside. This is why they need living cells (of whatever host they can infect) to spread/propagate....

The only way out is immunization, and that takes time to develop after first contact, and yes many die in that process; this is what we refer to in BioSciences as the 'Natural Selection' acting on populations(/doing its thing in the wild.)

Vaccines are Man's ingenuity at speeding up that process(/acquired immunity) without being in prior contact with the fully functional virus, thus saving lives.

Two ways a virus can be neutralized:

• when the host is fully immunized; that makes the virus an easy target for human's anti-viral defences (which is a specialized case of human cellular immunity, with lymphocyte T4/T8 at its heart.)
  
• when the virus loses that critical key that allows it to infect that particular kind of cells in that particular kind of hosts; the same key that since it has acquired it (following a mutation event) put it into our spotlight as a life-threatening agent.
  

This drama is really just the ages-long process of 'Life' in action, but this time under the Megaphones of a 'globalized World Order'. I know this expression is cliché, but describes best the situation as I witness it.

Anyway, I thought a bit of trivial biology bullet-points won't hurt anyone here :-)

(...)If it is unreasonable for me to suggest that vaccines may have detrimental long term side effects in the vigor/responsiveness in the human immune system because of lack of evidence and failure to consider other factors I submit it's equally unreasonable to state that vaccines will improve the long term vigor/responsiveness in the human immune system for the same reasons, or to state that a vaccine is needed by everyone. 

Same problem here too!.. a misconception about what vaccines actually do!!.. and the price a society is willing to pay in terms of human lives. See previous comment.

I think I understand this perfectly; I just don't agree 100%. I tend to believe that the population density is the primary threat. Human beings have been expanding into new ecosystems since before recorded history, but it's only very recently that a point of expansion has been in contact with a dense population area (millions of people in a municipality). I would argue that there is a direct correlation between population density and the frequencies with which pandemic/epidemics occur. While zoonosis is possible any time a person/group explores an undeveloped area with unfamiliar wild-life, I don't believe it would be nearly as likely to reach epidemic proportions if people weren't packed into cities like sardines in a tin.

I think I did a post on the problem of population density in the mega-cities in this thread but that only accelerates local spread from Human-to-human part of the equation. THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM IS THE WILD-LIFE-2-HUMAN PART (ie the zoonosis) OF THE EQUATION, as I explained previously.

The other factor is the globalization of the World economy that accelerates the Human-to-human transmission across the GLOBE instead of locally in the case of the major Urban centers.

To summarize, the ticking bomb is this:

> Zoonosis: WILD-LIFE-to-HUMAN transmission.
> High-density Urban areas: acceleration of local Human-to-human transmission (local epidemic state in progression)
> Globalization(/Neoliberal economics): acceleration of global Human-to-human transmission (the perfect global pandemic storm.)

[fChk]

In my previous post, I was speaking in general terms but, yes, for COVID-19's vaccines, none of the currently advertised brands are officially approved by the WHO. The 2 US-made mRNA-based vaccines are approved by their local institutions (CDC, NIH etc..) under their emergency Act and they both passed the 3rd phase of their clinical-trials with an advertized 95% efficacy score. So is the Russian Sputnik V vaccine which is an adenovirus-based vector vaccine (technically similar to the one from Oxford-AstraZeneca.) The Russians did deploy their own vaccine -which was the first on the market- under the same emergency rule. The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is at its final stage, as they are manufacturing it in India and should be distributed worldwide to the countries seeking to purchase it.

The advantage of the adenovirus-based vector vaccine is that it doesn't require the highly low temperatures for preservation (5°C instead of -70°C for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for example) making it safer for distributions in 3rd-World countries. Also, there is the cost 3$ a shot instead of 50$ for either Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna ones.

Yesterday(/Feb. 15, 2021) the WHO approves the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine for emergency use, because -as I hinted in that quote of mine above- it's cheaper and easier to distribute... making it ideal for use in the developing world (aka 3rd-World countries.)

To meet the demand Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine is currently produced in large-scale by AstraZeneca-SKBio in South Korea and the Serum Institute of India.

It should be noted however that the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine had few setbacks, including preliminary results showing its potential ineffectiveness with the South-African SARS-CoV-2 variant, which led its discontinuation in South Africa (according to some News, @deanhills might confirm this for us) and the decline to approve this vaccine in people 65+ without further study in Germany, France and South Korea.

The vaccination process itself consists of two doses with an interval of around 8 to 12 weeks.

On a personal note, we got this one already in deployment over here and curiously enough we've started with the elderly (70+ of age) along side the front-line workers... We'll see how it goes...

[deanhills]

It should be noted however that the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine had few setbacks, including preliminary results showing its potential ineffectiveness with the South-African SARS-CoV-2 variant, which led its discontinuation in South Africa (according to some News, @deanhills might confirm this for us) and the decline to approve this vaccine in people 65+ without further study in Germany, France and South Korea.

This is correct @fChk.  Although the first major issue, that also led to a conflict with India was the early expiry date on the vaccine, which was around first week of April.  India had failed to warn South Africa of that expiration date at the time when they provided the first batch.  Then when the conflict was not resolved to the satisfaction of the South African Govwernment, the conflict led to cancellation of further batches.  On top of it it was found that the vaccine was almost useless for the new Covid 19 strain of the virus in South Africa.  However, the vaccine did look effective for severe cases of Covid 19.  So some of the scientists thought it would work for severe cases, you get the virus but you don't die from it.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/...21251247v1

There were also discussions that there were bad side effects for the elderly.  Although I didn't see any scientific documentation on it.  Just news reports.

I personally wouldn't touch it though for any age group.  I guess there are many others who think this way as well.  Just imagine the cost of the vaccine - basically millions invested in a major vaccination project in South Africa, and it was virtually aborted before it started.  I'd imagine though with scientists here saying it's good for serious cases, maybe if there is no other vaccine available a patient may still be administered the vaccine - but before April of course bearing also in mind there's a need for a second dose within 28 days.  

Here is a good article about the types of vaccines South Africa is looking at and their expected efficacy.
https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/...-vaccines/

Most scientists here would want to pursue a vaccine that can be given as a single dose, since South Africa is a third world country with millions to be vaccinated, and logistically the administration and availability of health workers is a great challenge.  So the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is the most actively pursued vaccine at the moment.  First batch is expected at beginning of March.  Obviously other vaccines are also pursued as only so many can be purchased of any one vaccine at one time. Novavax is also being purchased. Novavax has to be used in two doses, but seems to have a greater efficacy than Johnson & Johnson.  Novavax however hasn't been tested in South Africa yet for the new Covid 19 strain 501Y.V2.  Reports however from other countries on testing Novavax seem to be promising for efficacy against all three new strains of the virus.

[sagher]

Now the yesterday news from South Africa, As mention by Deanhills. now again world though about reliability of life saving vaccines?
It's mean the scam of making fraud in vaccination for poor countries is true or might be thoughtful in future.
and the second named country is India which have received vaccines with almost few days away to expiry.
So if we study the soul of vaccination process it is just pioneer for COVID-19 to spread easily with expire vaccination.

Its just alarming..
I wish 2021 is not as 2020.
May ALLAH save the world from this pandemic.

[deanhills]

Well, good news in South Africa.  The first Johnson & Johnson batch of vaccines arrived from the US.  It must have lots of confidence as even the President of the country, Ramaphosa, got vaccinated today.  They're focussing on Government leaders and medical staff first.  Good part of Johnson & Johnson vaccine is (1) you only need one dose (2) it has proven to be effective for the South African strain of the virus (3) no need for deep freeze - it only needs regular refrigeration (4) it is relatively cheap compared with other vaccines and will sell at 10$ a dose. Someone is going to make lots of money!

South Africa received its first Johnson & Johnson 80,000 doses for free in exchange for the research it has been involved with with Johnson & Johnson. It seems to be the first country outside the US to use the vaccine.
https://ewn.co.za/2021/02/17/the-18-site...take-place

The Government of South Africa is in process of purchasing 9 million further doses of Johnson & Johnson.  Not sure when that will arrive. At the same time there are plans for the vaccine to be packaged in South Africa in a partnership between a pharmaceutical company Aspen located in Port Elizabeth, South Africa and Johnson & Johnson from the US.  The partnership still has to be approved, but hopes are high for packaging to start from April onwards.  
https://www.businessinsider.co.za/covid-...ow-2020-12

South Africa has a population of approx 60 million people.  So the 80,000 doses are really like a drop in the ocean. Will be interesting to see how the vaccine takes. Would be great if it is successful, as if it can be locally packaged, then it will provide jobs in Port Elizabeth, one of the poorest cities of South Africa.

[sagher]

Well, good news in South Africa.  The first Johnson & Johnson batch of vaccines arrived from the US.  It must have lots of confidence as even the President of the country, Ramaphosa, got vaccinated today.  They're focussing on Government leaders and medical staff first.  Good part of Johnson & Johnson vaccine is (1) you only need one dose (2) it has proven to be effective for the South African strain of the virus (3) no need for deep freeze - it only needs regular refrigeration (4) it is relatively cheap compared with other vaccines and will sell at 10$ a dose.  Someone is going to make lots of money!

South Africa received its first Johnson & Johnson 80,000 doses for free in exchange for the research it has been involved with with Johnson & Johnson. It seems to be the first country outside the US to use the vaccine.
https://ewn.co.za/2021/02/17/the-18-site...take-place

The Government of South Africa is in process of purchasing 9 million further doses of Johnson & Johnson.  Not sure when that will arrive. At the same time there are plans for the vaccine to be packaged in South Africa in a partnership between a pharmaceutical company Aspen located in Port Elizabeth, South Africa and Johnson & Johnson from the US.  The partnership still has to be approved, but hopes are high for packaging to start from April onwards.  
https://www.businessinsider.co.za/covid-...ow-2020-12

South Africa has a population of approx 60 million people.  So the 80,000 doses are really like a drop in the ocean.  Will be interesting to see how the vaccine takes.  Would be great if it is successful, as if it can be locally packaged, then it will provide jobs in Port Elizabeth, one of the poorest cities of South Africa.

It's really good to know that South African Govt not compromise on his nation health and lives and prevent them from useless vaccination and suddenly got fresh stock however it is not fulfill the need but it will happens with all third world countries. here we got only 50k vaccine and population is more then 220M. and here Govt prefer to vaccinate front line doctors, nurses and armed forces.

[fChk]

There were also discussions that there were bad side effects for the elderly.  Although I didn't see any scientific documentation on it.  Just news reports.

Sporadic complications are inevitable for all age groups; that's just a fact reflecting the biodiversity among human populations, this is why Statistics is KING as to inferring any actual meaning to those incidents.

(...) Just imagine the cost of the vaccine - basically millions invested in a major vaccination project in South Africa, and it was virtually aborted before it started.(.....)

As to the cost, Oxford-AstraZeneca is the cheapest Covid-15 vaccine on the market, 3$ a dose; I would image that this is the major factor in the decision-making process for 3rd-World countries, alongside the logistics of deployment.

By comparison, J&J, which uses the same technology as Oxford-AstraZeneca (ie adenovirus-based vaccine) costs 10$ a dose, just like the Russian adenovirus-based vaccine, Sputnik V.

Novavax costs 16$ a dose, while the mRNA-based vaccines costs around 19$ for Pfizer-BioNTech and 30$ for Moderna (according to the latest figures.)

Most scientists here would want to pursue a vaccine that can be given as a single dose, since South Africa is a third world country with millions to be vaccinated, and logistically the administration and availability of health workers is a great challenge.  So the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is the most actively pursued vaccine at the moment.  First batch is expected at beginning of March.  Obviously other vaccines are also pursued as only so many can be purchased of any one vaccine at one time. Novavax is also being purchased. Novavax has to be used in two doses, but seems to have a greater efficacy than Johnson & Johnson.  Novavax however hasn't been tested in South Africa yet for the new Covid 19 strain 501Y.V2.  Reports however from other countries on testing Novavax seem to be promising for efficacy against all three new strains of the virus.

Okay!.. Then J&J should do fine with those requirements in mind.

Novavax however hasn't been tested in South Africa yet for the new Covid 19 strain 501Y.V2.  

For folks wondering about the 501Y.V2, it's what's refereed to as the South-african SARS-CoV-2 variant in the news, the labels 20H/501Y.V2 or B.1.351 are its entries in the virus variants databases; they are routinely used in the scientific literature but are also used in more formal discussions to avoid any stigmatization of individual countries (by association.) Unlike what Trump used to do when referring to the Covid-15 virus as the "Chinese virus" :-)