[rudra]

well @Rehan . I would like to say that I see where I went wrong in my previous post. So you getting upset with those comments are totally on me. I am sorry to have hurt your feelings.. I really am ! I have nothing against common people of any country or religion.

With that out of the way, let me try to point out some things rationally.

1) How do we know who is the aggressor and who is the defender in these situations ?

Here in India, we always keep hearing through every media outlet that it is Pakistan army attacking our border force unprovoked while terrorists were trying to enter somewhere else. Like a distraction. even those newspapers that support the opposition and never lose an opportunity to show the ruling party in bad light. So that kind of makes us believe it. Also it is not like Indian army invited Pakistan army inside our border during kargil war so they could have a war game and die in thousands.

Now I can guess that this happens there in Pakistan and China too. So how are you , me or a common Chinese person to know what's the reality.

2) Pakistan and China have every reason to be the aggressor.

for Pakistan, it is the appeasement of the army which is the real power there and the extremists who run it. Also this is a victim card for Pakistan to put aside big part of national budget and ask for more money and aid from their allies. Religion and national enemy are two great weapons used by bad rulers who dont want to do much for the ruled and want to keep them distracted. (same thing happening in india now too).

for China, they want to expand and secure the new trade routes they are building and ensure their own great future and want to leave no weak points or pressure points. China is doing this salami slicing two-step-forward-one-step-back with every neighbour.

So I think apart from blind faith and nationalism, you dont have much to go on to logically support that ' India an aggressor ' claim.
India is too divided in internal political strife and all encompassing corruption to settle on a fixed foreign policy and keep working on that.

Also I can totally assure you that if all the Pakistan army at Indo-Pak border left their posts and went home, India won't move ahead one step.

Proof: I have two.

(a) India stopped their army from occupying all of the Kashmir when it decided to join India and Pakistan sent its army to occupy it by force. That is the Pak occupied Kashmir.

(b) India could have used the pretext of Kargil war to rectify that error in judgement, but it didn't.

see, these kind of errors are only commited by peaceful peace-loving entities. Not war mongering ones that want own gain at any cost.

also to remind everyone, India has more Muslims in number than couple of Pakistan put together. so Muslim majority areas should be in Pakistan is a bad argument.

Here I would like to end this with a request...

we have no way to reliably know what the politicians are doing. So it is better not to hurt each other. let us not fight over these. I am stopping here and if you guys want, I will edit out those parts from my posts.
I don't want to fight, verbally or otherwise and i don't enjoy hurting , myself or others. So let us stop it here.

[Khadeer143]

very good points @ikk157.

@deanhills
the app ban was a way to at least partially save face for the Indian PM. A show of retaliation. If China increases tax or hikes price/bans export to India, then India will be in a bigger mess. India has really big deficit there (difference between export to and import from China). But I guess Chinese premier wont do it. he just wants to give enough rope so the other side can look respectable while hanging themselves.

He is a very shrewd and determined person who can lie in wait for decades. Can India ? No. ..  This is the problem with almost any democracy that changes top seat holders after every couple of years and where bureaucrats are beholden to politicians .

From their point of view, China is doing nothing wrong when compared to what USA does in the name of national security. From India's POV, it is almost truely friendless right now .... cause even though there is a will to oppose the growing influence of China, I guess very few countries have the power to mobilize themselves to do so successfully without facing huge loss. USA probably could..but look at its internal political condition. The rest of them are kinda powerless without USA.

I guess one solution would be to reoccupy pak occupied Kashmir and part of punjab forcefully and then donate that for a military base to USA... haha... that would be a good tit for tat. though given the internal political issues, i really doubt anything well planned is going to come from India's current power that be.

NOTE:- I personally believe India will not even catch China in the foreseeable future. let alone surpass. cause the first condition for that, i think is, to make sure that only educated and experienced people get to govern anything in the country, based on their performance. they should not even get to stand in elections without college level education. it will never happen. we still start making noise when a tea seller becomes a PM. It should have been a sad day. now they are promoting Homeopathy and Ayurveda....

Chinese PM is a Chemical engineer I think. so there you have it.

a country of fools will never surpass a country headed by a dragon.

so the options are, join them or their strongest enemy.

So you want to surrender to China ? Lol you are forgetting some thing USA or china is the not alone country which is strong what you say about Arabs ,turkey ,Russia ,Israel ? You forget them hahaha ? Why always China bitter Alone do you thought of this ? Why China always alone comparing to other country? Except 3 countries everyone are against China and I suggest you get a answer from searching google you say India pm is uneducated OK then what about China president who is well educated but act has dumb ,over powering there country for shit reasons? Its funny how you compare India with China you forgetting many things around world if China was so power then it should never take on India for capturing India ,dominating India it should directly attack usa for power rule all im damn sure China will never dare to take on usa because USA will give more shit to China "hahaha" I suggest you tell China to take on USA first then come to India if it is so much over powered if the war will really happen there is 90% loose for China even China well know it a single country never gets a chance to defend  against 5-6 country's its not a  movie in which miracles can happen weather Pakistan or norhtkorea can never save China  from war "hahahaha"

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I don't want to apploize for my comments to anyone because all started by above posts and I replied to there posts I just mention about banning apps and some dudes made it go off topic

[rudra]

@Khadeer143

i didn't understand much of what you wanted to say above (did I understand anything you wanted to convey at all !? well, let us not go there). But i surely enjoyed your zeal and confidence.

i don't want India or anyone to surrender to anyone else. i would like if everybody could do good without hurting others willingly.

I love India, but I also love China and Pakistan. their common people and the nature and the culture and heritage. i like to think i am not xenophobic. if nationalism means loving your own country more than others, then I'm am not one and proud of that.

There is only one country that is powerful on earth beyond all else. That is USA. why ? cause they can defend their own while projecting power to multiple other locations at the same time. China may be second. though really really far far behind in every aspect.

there are some others as you say, but they are like suicide bombers. 'if you hurt us, we will surely die, but we have the power to take you down with us too.... and we are not afraid to do so' type countries.

but please let us not start a war on this. it is of no practical consequence to us. it was nice talking to you. thank you !

[Rehan]

No one want to mess with country borders ,weather its politics or anything else if some ones lose lives other will try to take revenge and rehan says that India army break rules which is far funny @Rehan why will some one break rules and give there life's for unknown reason didn't you see who really breaks rules China army entered our land in India place if any other country will be there they will act same and coming to Pakistan's and Jammu Kashmir no one love to loose there owned property Pakistan was always trouble for India for past years every time there I terrriost problems from Pakistan even the died of Osama binladen happen in Pakistan even till yesterday 2 crpf jawans died due to terriost came from Pakistan ,before supporting Pakistan against India please read all the pasts of Pakistan then point out something on India Jammu and Kashmir will be always for India nor Pakistan nor China can never take them coming to China all world want to terminate China from power not only USA ,Russia,Australia,Arabs,turkeys,many country's are against China due to China president over confidence act he thinks he can own every country near China surroundings, but that won't works at all if war is really happen then its a big loose for china  if war will be happen China will be alone with Pakistan ,northkorea and all country's  will be against them.rip in advance China and India know better why China supports Pakistan 

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Another thing about India is all business starts from India  weather its amazon ,tiktok or any other things .

Well Well Well, You are maybe right. Everything relates to India    Yeah India's future is bright we all can see India is going to ruin China. Pakistan and North Korea too if they support China. We are not an army member nor a politician, we are not going to do a war, we are just spectators. So we don't fight just watch and accept what happens. Well, it's my last reply in this thread on this topic, cuz we are going off-topic. But the one last thing is that remember China has captured the Ladakh and India is now preparing to ruin China from the World map by blocking China apps. Well, let's see what happens.

I never wanted to post in this thread. But some lines of Rudra's post made me to reply. BTW i am going to stop it here before we get a warning from P4V staff. Nevermind!

[deanhills]

China appears too aggressive and too nationalistic to think good for everyone in every country in general. They seem to think of their own citizens as numbers sometimes and expendable. So USA is worried for a good reason. So this covid timing is actually very fortuitous for humans as a whole. I guess it will encourage / force a lot of countries to be self reliant and less dependent on China.

finally, i have no idea whether India talked with usa before placing this ban. Don't know much to base my guess upon.

Totally agreed @rudra with China being very aggressive. It also has very aggressive citizens. Your point is very valid particularly today when China asked the world to stop meddling in their affairs in Hong Kong - probably referring to England's decision to allow a certain category citizens from Hong Kong to emigrate to England.

Actually India talking to USA isn't quite what I meant. I'd think that it's more a case of them always being in touch about matters like these. US has a big agenda about electronic espionage by China for decades. So I'd imagine it would keep on sending reports to India about alleged China espionage activities. The decision that was made was India's decision, with the support of the US. US didn't make it for India. But they are in touch and allies. I may be wrong of course, but this is my perception.

[sagher]

Bann of Apps such a ridiculous way. ok then how many apps they can banned. china invest many many items in india even some direct selling electronic products. i shocked to see zee news few weeks ago. a program is on air with the slogan of #say no to china products and will you imagine who sponsor the program. VIVO mobile. and co powered by XIAOMI..

Indian military is trying first to make violence and china govt leaked the video where indian army begging and excusing for wrong entrance in china disputed area. 





However i always against war and fight. we have to grown-up and let's talk first sit together and find peace ways. china have a bigger land and india have too. why india always try for fight. even in kashmir. i wish one day kashmir will be a freedom state and appear as a new country in world map without india and without pakistan.

[noahthewindowsguy]

So even if the service is available internationally, but made by a chinese developer it could get banned?. I mean to ban apps and cause inconvenience to users just because of a war is crazy. i mean Android users could download apks, but for iOS users, they are can't easily sideload apps so they can't use some of them. but can they access services

[deanhills]

So even if the service is available internationally, but made by a chinese developer it could get banned?. I mean to ban apps and cause inconvenience to users just because of a war is crazy. i mean Android users could download apks, but for iOS users, they are can't easily sideload apps so they can't use some of them. but can they access services

@noahthewindowsguy The war may have been a factor, but in essence the banning of the apps has more to do with protecting users against the aggressive and unscrupulous mining of data by China through the apps. The apps have been used to gather information about the individuals including soldiers using the apps. This is not the first time it has happened either and isn't restricted to India. The big drama about Huawei in the US is along the same lines.

This is the reason that the apps got banned:

The Indian government said in its statement that, "the compilation of these data, its mining and profiling by elements hostile to national security and defence of India, which ultimately impinges upon the sovereignty and integrity of India, is a matter of very deep and immediate concern which requires emergency measures".


This isn't the first time Chinese apps have been banned in India. In 2017, Alibaba's UC Browser came under scrutiny for allegedly leaking mobile data of Indian users. And that year, India's defence ministry asked all armed personnel and officers to uninstall 42 Chinese apps it classified as "spyware", according to media reports.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53232486

[ikk157]

@noahthewindowsguy  The war may have been a factor, but in essence the banning of the apps has more to do with protecting users against the aggressive and unscrupulous mining of data by China through the apps.   The apps have been used to gather information about the individuals  including soldiers using the apps.   This is not the first time it has happened either and isn't restricted to India.  The big drama about Huawei in the US is along the same lines.  

This is the reason that the apps got banned:

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53232486

I do agree with your point.

Chinese companies (notice how i didn’t say China, but rather chinese companies because of the generalization nonsense I explained above) have a reputation of collecting all sorts of data from their users the second you start using their products... which is honestly a major privacy issue... and if you look into the information they collect, you’d honestly be creeped out. Collecting information is only acceptable up to a certain level (where the end user is made aware of what’s being collected, combined with the data being collected being minimal and only used to improve the product)... which is something many chinese companies aren’t too bothered about. They tend to collect any sort of data they could possibly get their hands on without your knowledge... it’s absolutely insane!

This for sure has to do with some chinese companies, huawei as an example, offering products that tend to be “too cheap to be true”... and that’s even with taking the cheaper labor costs in china into account... many people (myself included) believe that the money they make selling your data is significantly more than then money they’re losing by offering cheaper devices... and the sad part is people fall for it. 

I honestly don’t blame the Indian government for banning said apps if that’s the reason why they’re doing so. However, banning the apps is only a small part of the solution. They’ve still got the devices themselves (such as huawei phones) being used in the country... they still have other non-chinese devices using Huawei internals, so on. 

So basically they haven’t solved the problem with banning the apps... they only made their own people face the consequences of said actions.

[deanhills]

Chinese companies (notice how i didn’t say China, but rather chinese companies because of the generalization nonsense I explained above)

Great point. It's a global Chinese phenomenon.

I honestly don’t blame the Indian government for banning said apps if that’s the reason why they’re doing so. However, banning the apps is only a small part of the solution. They’ve still got the devices themselves (such as huawei phones) being used in the country... they still have other non-chinese devices using Huawei internals, so on. 

So basically they haven’t solved the problem with banning the apps... they only made their own people face the consequences of said actions.

True. However it looks like the apps will be banned through instructions to the ISPs and maybe even through Google's Play Store and Apple's App Store:

How will the ban be enforced?
The notification is expected to be followed by instructions to Internet service providers to block these apps. Users are likely to soon see a message saying access to the apps has been restricted on the request of the government.

However, while this will impact apps like TikTok and UC News that need a live feed to serve any purpose, users might still be able to continue using apps that don’t need an active Internet connection to be used. But further downloads of these apps, like CamScanner, are likely to be blocked on Google’s Play Store and Apple’s App Store.

Source: https://indianexpress.com/article/explai...d-6482150/