[deanhills]

Yeah Canada is still not playing around, I am fully vaccinated and I am trying to make a work trip to Vancouver, at this time, I will have to leave 2 weeks early to quarantine and then go over routine testing just to make sure I am not carrying or transmitting the virus.

Exactly. Not to mention at least $2000 to cover expenses - book and pay in advance for a 3-day stay in a Canada Government approved Hotel and then be basically incarcerated in it while you wait for the outcome of a test which as far as I understand you have to pay for as well. I'd be dead worried to stay in Hotels like that and wonder how up to date their ventilation systems are. Like families congregating in small rooms in those Hotels. Got to be tough on the kids and their parents.

Any way. I'm sure I'm not the only Canadian grumbling about that. There are many Canadians - particularly the snow birds in the USA - delaying travel back to avoid the expense and discomfort around the airports.

[tbelldesignco]

Exactly.  Not to mention at least $2000 to cover expenses - book and pay in advance for a 3-day stay in a Canada Government approved Hotel and then be basically incarcerated in it while you wait for the outcome of a test which as far as I understand you have to pay for as well.  I'd be dead worried to stay in Hotels like that and wonder how up to date their ventilation systems are.  Like families congregating in small rooms in those Hotels.  Got to be tough on the kids and their parents.

Any way.  I'm sure I'm not the only Canadian grumbling about that.  There are many Canadians - particularly the snow birds in the USA - delaying travel back to avoid the expense and discomfort around the airports.

Oh yeah, my birth-dad lives in Toronto and he's been wanting to come state side to see me, but there is no way between scheduling off work and everything you have to do to for reentry that it is worth while or possible for some people. I know with a friend, we went to Toronto February 2020 right when the US was starting to close their borders and we had to take a 90 hour train ride from Toronto to Chicago with a bunch of different stops just to get back home. We couldn't enter via NYC or we would have been held there and would not have been able to leave until about two or three months ago.

[fChk]

Well, I am also thinking about it that what will i do if colleges started to create pressure on students for getting vaccinated but i don't we should be bound for getting vaccinated since the vaccine does not guarantee that you wont be affected by corona but rather it saves you from getting hospitalized and that should be my choice since it gonna harm only me no one else.

That argument is false since it should only be true if you're living alone inside a jungle or on an uninhabited island. But since that's not the case, since you're living inside a society ruled by a set of laws, then you have an obligation towards your fellow citizens to not serve as an unwilling vector for the virus, actively spreading it among your own people.

Now, I understand from your previous post that you've already contacted the virus which should suggest that you might have acquired the necessary immunity against it going forward.. Still, getting vaccinated will only boost that immunity even further.. But that's up to you and your conscience.

[Decent12]

That argument is false since it should only be true if you're living alone inside a jungle or on an uninhabited island. But since that's not the case, since you're living inside a society ruled by a set of laws, then you have an obligation towards your fellow citizens to not serve as an unwilling vector for the virus, actively spreading it among your own people.

Now, I understand from your previous post that you've already contacted the virus which should suggest that you might have acquired the necessary immunity against it going forward.. Still, getting vaccinated will only boost that immunity even further.. But that's up to you and your conscience.

Vaccine does not stop virus from infecting you and i have already mentioned i think you missed or i am getting your point wrong since you are talking about spreading it among your own people that can be done even after getting vaccine.

So it should be totally upto me since it will only harm me and no one else.

You can be infected even after vaccine.

[tiwil]

Vaccine does not stop virus from infecting you and i have already mentioned i think you missed or i am getting your point wrong since you are talking about spreading it among your own people that can be done even after getting vaccine.

So it should be totally upto me since it will only harm me and no one else.

You can be infected even after vaccine.

I get what @fChk is talking about. When you get the vaccine, at least your body already have the antibody that able to fight the virus before it gives you any symptoms. Or if any symptoms occur, it's not that heavy that will require you to be taken to the hospital.

But when you don't get the vaccine, your body need time to build the antibody. In the meantime, it will give you symptoms such as cough that can "share" the virus to others.

Yes, both vaccinated and non-vaccinated can still have symptoms such as cough, but, do you want to feel how hard is it to breathe when your lung is affected? I'm not

[Decent12]

I get what @fChk is talking about. When you get the vaccine, at least your body already have the antibody that able to fight the virus before it gives you any symptoms. Or if any symptoms occur, it's not that heavy that will require you to be taken to the hospital.

But when you don't get the vaccine, your body need time to build the antibody. In the meantime, it will give you symptoms such as cough that can "share" the virus to others.

Yes, both vaccinated and non-vaccinated can still have symptoms such as cough, but, do you want to feel how hard is it to breathe when your lung is affected? I'm not

Virus spread is possible even if you dont have symptoms and you wont even know you are infected by virus but you will be spreading among other people.

inshort i wont harm anyone else if i dont get vaccine.

[fChk]

Vaccine does not stop virus from infecting you and i have already mentioned i think you missed or i am getting your point wrong since you are talking about spreading it among your own people that can be done even after getting vaccine.

So it should be totally upto me since it will only harm me and no one else.

You can be infected even after vaccine.

Being vaccinated doesn't stop you from getting re-infected is indeed TRUE, because what a vaccine does is prepping(/boosting) your so-called acquired immune defenses (ad-hoc antibodies, T4-Cells and T8-Cells) to get ready for when the virus is inside your body (not outside!) This is why a vaccinated person generally either shows mild symptoms when getting re-infected or shows no-symptoms at-all (ie asymptomatic when RT-PCR tested.) Because those antibodies, T8-cells and NK-Cells (Natural Killer Cells) kill it once inside.

A population is a mixture of vaccinated and un-vaccinated folks. When a virus reach that population it will thrive on the unvaccinated part of that population while the vaccinated portion serve as a shield, because when it gets infected they don't spread it (because the virus load is quickly neutralized inside them.)

This is why when an unvaccinated person claims that 'getting vaccinated should be his choice since getting infected by a virus will only harm him and no body else' is false!

This why governments across the world are trying to get their populations vaccinated in the hope of reaching the so-called 'herd immunity' (ie 70-80% of vaccination rate) which should serve as the SHIELD (as I said above.)

I hope it's clearer now!

[deanhills]

@fChk  I disagree.  We have a virus that is fighting against herd immunity by developing new variants all of the time. I agree with one scientist here in South Africa who at the time when the South African new variant was uncovered, said that the virus is more clever than the scientists studying it. There is a good chance that maybe down the line those who have become vaccinated will have to get a completely new shot to protect themselves against new variants of the virus. What is very important for me to note is that those vaccinated can still be asymptomatic and infect others.  Another important fact for me is those who have been vaccinated may be under the illusion that they are immune after vaccination, they have this false expectation that they do not need to take precautions any longer.  They don't realize that there is a percentage chance that there has been zero immune response which means they aren't protected - the vaccination didn't take.  How do they know whether the vaccination has taken?  

Bottom line for me.  Vaccination doesn't work 100%.  It's not like a measles vaccination, where you get the shot and you know you're protected. It varies in percentages and PROVIDED you had a good reaction to the vaccination.  You may not react at all and be very vulnerable.  Even if 65% of the population has been vaccinated only a proportion of that 65% may have had an immune reaction, and for a specific variant only.  And a specific period of time only.  As like with the measles example.  You don't get to be protected for years on end.  Maybe not even a year.  Scientists haven't got the booster shot thing sorted out either.  Some say 6 months.  

I can't see herd immunity happening soon because of the changes in variants, but even more importantly because the effects of the vaccination have not been properly researched yet.  They seem to be making it up sometimes as they go along, treating people in the street like me like a member of a "herd".  While they are testing different vaccinations and the "herd" being treated as test cases.  I think this whole issue has also been taken out of the hands of public health and become too much politicized to the detriment of fighting this virus.  Each country deals with it differently.  I don't think the world is even near out of the woods yet.  I'm not saying I'll never take a flu shot, but for me personally they're experimenting out there. Technically all of those vaccinated are test cases.  Now if I see something happening for the longer term, I may change my mind, but for now I think there isn't enough scientific research for the effect of vaccines and its longevity.

[fChk]

@fChk I disagree. We have a virus that is fighting against herd immunity by developing new variants all of the time.

The new variants arise because only a fraction of the World population is currently immunized either because they have been vaccinated or because they have already contracted the virus and recovered from it. The vast majority (in terms of billions) aren't still. So SARS-CoV-2 is busy generating those variants inside those billions of potential hosts.

Single-strand RNA-based viruses replication is not as high-fidelity as the DNA-based ones, hence why it's prone to errors during that process resulting in a significant mutation rate at each multiplication event which is the basis of the new variants emergence. That process is well known as a process in Molecular Biology and well documented in Virology.

The thing here is that we(/as Human beings) are in a RACE against that SARS-CoV-2. The more we get people vaccinated the less fertile play-ground we leave to the virus to evolve. That's the challenge!

My understanding from the medical reports is that all the major vaccines work to varying degrees against SARS-CoV-2 variants too. Not a perfect/total protection for sure but at least it's there.

What we really need to understand is that this SARS-CoV-2 has just reached the age of 18 months old as an emergent Human virus and the fact that we've been able to develop a vaccine and are currently in the process of getting it into people's arm is quite an achievement in the Bio-medical sciences.

Of course the vaccines aren't perfect and need to be updated according to the predominant variant(s) in the population concerned. BUT Comparing current SARS-CoV-2 vaccines which have been developed within months from the virus isolation and sequencing (January 2020) and are now distributed during a global pandemic and public health emergencies, under a special Emergency Use Authorization with the vaccine of centuries-old disease -Measles- that we've only managed to make in its current form back in 1968 after Thomas Peebles isolated it (ie the measles virus or MeV) in 1954!.. I would say that's a bit unfair!.. Don't you think?

Give it time and -may be- we'll sort this one out too!.. Although -on a personal note- I have my own doubts as to the complete eradication of it. I think SARS-CoV-2 is here to stay and evolve!..

Again, folks, please GET VACCINATED!.. Which one ?.. Well, the one that's available to you. My bottom line is this:

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SOME IMMUNITY IS BETTER THAN NO IMMUNITY AT ALL!
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[mzltest]

The new variants arise because only a fraction of the World population is currently immunized either because they have been vaccinated or because they have already contracted the virus and recovered from it. The vast majority (in terms of billions) aren't still. So SARS-CoV-2 is busy generating those variants inside those billions of potential hosts.
(...)

Agreed.

We are on the race and mutations do occur in a low rate every time the virus spreads,and these mutations might develop strains that are harder to get rid of.Though the rate is low,but the massive infected hosts have compensating the low mutation rate and showing up new variations.So if we are able to keep the active infected and not-protected hosts to a controllable number,the new strains,at least,show slower and giving us more time to focus on the long term solutions.And one important approach is vaccination.

However as I pointed out previously,any kind of vaccine can not guarantee protection,and as far as I know,if a vaccine have a >50% protection rate it can be approved for emergency use.In a video(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OLpKqTriio)it is said you need at least 60% protected people to supress the virus but I think we need more considering other issues like mutation.And all of these should happen in the same popular strain.

And yes,though here we do not use imported vaccines,I knew there are some blood clotting cases using AZ.I prefer not to comment on the issues but at least if you don't want to take the risk,you should follow the basic santiziation standards - at least don't spread the virus.