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Macbooks switching from Intel to ARM Processors
#1
Yup you read that right! 


According to a new and interesting news, confirmed in Apple's WWDC' 20, Apple is reportedly switching from Intel manufactured processors to their own ARM based chips which Apple calls "Apple Silicone". The biggest problem that Apple faces in this "shift" is that alot of programs are not programmed to directly work with ARM chips and surely there will be stability issues which is huge for a production machine such as the macbook however Apple has said that It had Microsoft and Adobe among other companies updating their software (Microsoft Office, Adobe Suite) to work with their new chips, tho only time will tell how it's going to be!

What do you think about this? I think Its a really bold change, however Apple are industry leaders so if this works other companies soon might follow!
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#2
(06-24-2020, 05:03 AM)Honey Wrote:  Yup you read that right! 


According to a new and interesting news, confirmed in Apple's WWDC' 20, Apple is reportedly switching from Intel manufactured processors to their own ARM based chips which Apple calls "Apple Silicone". The biggest problem that Apple faces in this "shift" is that alot of programs are not programmed to directly work with ARM chips and surely there will be stability issues which is huge for a production machine such as the macbook however Apple has said that It had Microsoft and Adobe among other companies updating their software (Microsoft Office, Adobe Suite) to work with their new chips, tho only time will tell how it's going to be!

What do you think about this? I think Its a really bold change, however Apple are industry leaders so if this works other companies soon might follow!

This shift isn’t as problematic as people make it seem like.

First of all, Apple clearly said they’ll continue supporting the intel line-up of their macs. For a matter of fact, they even said they have new intel-based macs on the line. So users have the full choice on which they would get. And apple clearly said the switch is a two year process, which gives devs plenty of time to do whatever (which they don’t have to do much as described in the next paragraph).

Secondly, xcode, which is apple’s development environment that devs use to write their programs, will immediately give them an option to simply compile their programs to a binary that supports both intel (x86-64) and ARM... so all the devs really have to do is click a button. It’s the same method used when compiling programs from source yourself (which I’m sure the majority of the VPS holders here have at least done once or twice).

Thirdly, MacOS has a new feature that translates the intel (x86-64) programs to ARM in real time... which they beautifully demonstrated by showing us an x86-64 game running perfectly on their ARM demo mac.

And finally, they’ve got a built-in virtual machine software allowing you to run a VM of whatever x86-64 OS you want. So that’s not an issue either.

In my opinion, apple provided all the tools/features required to make this transition seamless with minimal effect! Which is insanely impressive... I’ve never seen architectural shifts being done this smoothly and painlessly!
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#3
there are a lot of reason why apple switch from intel to their custom arm chip

-cost
making a chip yourself is cheaper than using other people chipset espescially if the chipset that you create is better , more fficient and didnt stuck on 14nm like intel does .

-control and optimization
because apple create the chip itself they know more about the silicon so they can optimize it greatly . it is already done on ios with idevices like iphone and ipad . so im not surprized if apple arm can beat intel offering . it is just a fact that intel mostly doesnt do sh*t and just rebranding older processor and adding some core

-hackintosh
with apple using arm on their mac it is basically eliminating hackintosh entirely . hakintosh only exist when they switch to intel because it is the architecture of what most pc using . by switching arm it is near impossible to run macos on non apple hardware . at this time there is no ios running on any non apple device . why not for mac?
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#4
I'm still not over Apple's battery scandal of a few years back. I was on the receiving end of it, and could make a first hand comparison with how slow its performance was at the time.  Hopefully Apple has overcome that problem with its current models, but my confidence in Apple's hardware manufacture being much improved over other smart phones in the same league is not that high.  Let's hope I'm wrong and Apple taking charge of its own manufacture of the chips will mean an upgrade and not a downgrade of its standards and allow it to add new technology that its competitors will not be able to do with Intel manufactured processors.

I'd be interested to know how much more expensive it will be and also whether it's going to widen the gulf between Apple and Android phones even further.
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#5
(06-24-2020, 08:55 PM)deanhills Wrote:  I'm still not over Apple's battery scandal of a few years back. I was on the receiving end of it, and could make a first hand comparison with how slow its performance was at the time.  Hopefully Apple has overcome that problem with its current models, but my confidence in Apple's hardware manufacture being much improved over other smart phones in the same league is not that high.  Let's hope I'm wrong and Apple taking charge of its own manufacture of the chips will mean an upgrade and not a downgrade of its standards and allow it to add new technology that its competitors will not be able to do with Intel manufactured processors.

I'd be interested to know how much more expensive it will be and also whether it's going to widen the gulf between Apple and Android phones even further.

I don’t understand why people are complaining about Apple throttling down your phone to keep it running and prevent a sudden shutdown. Worn out batteries are unpredictable and sometimes they just can’t provide enough power to keep your phone running, which results in a sudden shutdown (had it happen to me many times with my old iPhone).

Now imagine that sudden shutdown happens while your doing something important... such as taking a precious picture/video which you can’t take again (a birthday for example). That’s the main reason Apple did what they did, and that’s to prevent these sudden shutdowns from happening. iOS monitors the battery’s health, and if it finds that it’s too work out, it decreases the performance of the system to make it more energy efficient, and hence reducing the chances of the battery not being able to provide enough power.

It seems like nowadays many people try to find any reason to complain about apple. And this battery situation just goes to prove how misinformed they actually are on how much this actually would benefit the users. 

As for the switch to Apple silicone, that’s actually a great move from Apple... not only is intel starting to fall behind in their chipset game, but also apple having their own chipset for the Macs would allow them to fine-tune it. And it will also give apple freedom with their chipsets compared to them being limited to what intel had to offer.

And to anyone scared of the transition, I’ve explained in detail on how the transition will be smooth in my above post.
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#6
(06-25-2020, 09:11 AM)ikk157 Wrote:  I don’t understand why people are complaining about Apple throttling down your phone to keep it running and prevent a sudden shutdown. Worn out batteries are unpredictable and sometimes they just can’t provide enough power to keep your phone running, which results in a sudden shutdown (had it happen to me many times with my old iPhone).

Now imagine that sudden shutdown happens while your doing something important... such as taking a precious picture/video which you can’t take again (a birthday for example). That’s the main reason Apple did what they did, and that’s to prevent these sudden shutdowns from happening. iOS monitors the battery’s health, and if it finds that it’s too work out, it decreases the performance of the system to make it more energy efficient, and hence reducing the chances of the battery not being able to provide enough power.

It seems like nowadays many people try to find any reason to complain about apple. And this battery situation just goes to prove how misinformed they actually are on how much this actually would benefit the users. 

As for the switch to Apple silicone, that’s actually a great move from Apple... not only is intel starting to fall behind in their chipset game, but also apple having their own chipset for the Macs would allow them to fine-tune it. And it will also give apple freedom with their chipsets compared to them being limited to what intel had to offer.

And to anyone scared of the transition, I’ve explained in detail on how the transition will be smooth in my above post.


I think one of the main reasons people got really mad when this news broke was the fact that Apple was doing this secretly, at the very least they should've notified the user that this was being done intentionally to prolong the battery. As for worn out batteries, I don't really understand why its such a big concern when old Android phones work just fine?
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#7
Yeah, I have read about this news. It is crazy because they just removed the BootCamp features on their products. You can't use Windows on mac pc anymore!
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#8
(06-25-2020, 02:14 PM)Honey Wrote:  I think one of the main reasons people got really mad when this news broke was the fact that Apple was doing this secretly, at the very least they should've notified the user that this was being done intentionally to prolong the battery. As for worn out batteries, I don't really understand why its such a big concern when old Android phones work just fine?

Sure people definitely have the right to know about this entire battery thing... but at the same time it’s not quite reasonable. You can’t expect any company to tell you everything about their systems... it’s just too much effort for practically nothing.

As for old android phones working fine, I’m very positive manufacturers push secret updates to their older phones when new ones are released which intentionally slows the phone down... you can really tell because they become significantly slower compared to when they were brand new, even if you factory reset them... and you can’t blame that on new, heavier OS updates because android phones tend to not get those for the next major android release anyway. And from experience, old android phones absolutely STRUGGLE when it comes to battery life... and even they experience sudden shutdowns because the manufacturers never bothered implementing proper power management like apple does.

If your own devices prove otherwise, then you’re simply lucky. As the above points are based on what I’ve seen on almost all android phones owned by family, friends and so on.

Plus, battery wear is a real thing... and android can’t magically make it disappear. Nor can it do anything when the components are starved of power due to the battery unable to deliver the minimum required power to keep it running.

Anyways this isn’t the subject of this thread... so if you have any more responses, feel free to either dm me or start a new thread.

(06-25-2020, 05:37 PM)LightDestory Wrote:  Yeah, I have read about this news. It is crazy because they just removed the BootCamp features on their products. You can't use Windows on mac pc anymore!

You still can actually... that’s quite literally why they made their own virtualization software... it emulates an x86-64 environment beautifully with minimal performance impacts. 

And we still don’t know for sure whether dual booting windows (or any x86-64 OS) on the ARM macs is possible or not... apple did not (yet) provide information regarding that. For all we know, they might use emulation there too!

And Windows on ARM is a thing... that’s how the ARM-based Surface runs windows!
Special thanks to Post4VPS and VirMach for providing me with VPS9! It is insanely powerful and fast!
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#9
(06-25-2020, 09:11 AM)ikk157 Wrote:  I don’t understand why people are complaining about Apple throttling down your phone to keep it running and prevent a sudden shutdown. Worn out batteries are unpredictable and sometimes they just can’t provide enough power to keep your phone running, which results in a sudden shutdown (had it happen to me many times with my old iPhone).
Thing is I actually proved it for myself.  I purchased two Apple iphone 6's in 2017 when I wanted to make a decision about whether to go for Apple iphone or Android phone.  I also purchased a Samsung Galaxy s7 which I thought was a comparable model.  At that time Apple iPhone 8 had just been released.  The charging of batteries and also the duration of how long they lasted was won hands down by Galaxy S7.  I then discovered during the year of that test - that there was a special Apple battery recovery project to compensate for batteries not working properly.  If tested to be necessary, Apple would replace the battery.  So obviously Apple acknowledged there was a problem.  So I took both iphones to a battery facility in Dubai - certified to fix Apple batteries.  The batteries were tested according to Apple test, and found to be in good condition for Apple.  Whether it was the battery's fault or not, what stuck out a mile for me was Apple has an unethical way of forcing users to upgrade to the newest and most up to date Apple models.  The battery replacement project was just a pacifier of sorts to lull customers in thinking Apple is a great company - a marketing ploy.  I then chose Android, as although I do think Apple iphone is a superior phone, it's only for the rich and if you can afford the latest models.  

So for me Apple is a good phone for professionals or people with a lot of money, so they can upgrade every time when there's a new phone or at least within a model from the latest phone so the latest OS won't cause a drag and overuse of battery on the older models.  I'm almost dead certain with the last change in component manufacture moving from Intel to Apple, that is going to have a great effect on future models, and new OS not being as compatible with older phones, and causing them to drag.  Again FORCING Apple users to upgrade to the new models so the OS will work fast as it should.

With Android it's a one size fits all OS, so the developers of Android have to always keep in mind of that.  But with Apple, they can do as they like.  Including lying to its users.  As of course it has a huge market, and by getting its wealthy customers to update to the newest phones, it can maintain its huge market share.
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#10
(06-25-2020, 07:27 PM)ikk157 Wrote:  Sure people definitely have the right to know about this entire battery thing... but at the same time it’s not quite reasonable. You can’t expect any company to tell you everything about their systems... it’s just too much effort for practically nothing.

As for old android phones working fine, I’m very positive manufacturers push secret updates to their older phones when new ones are released which intentionally slows the phone down... you can really tell because they become significantly slower compared to when they were brand new, even if you factory reset them... and you can’t blame that on new, heavier OS updates because android phones tend to not get those for the next major android release anyway. And from experience, old android phones absolutely STRUGGLE when it comes to battery life... and even they experience sudden shutdowns because the manufacturers never bothered implementing proper power management like apple does.

If your own devices prove otherwise, then you’re simply lucky. As the above points are based on what I’ve seen on almost all android phones owned by family, friends and so on.

Plus, battery wear is a real thing... and android can’t magically make it disappear. Nor can it do anything when the components are starved of power due to the battery unable to deliver the minimum required power to keep it running.

Anyways this isn’t the subject of this thread... so if you have any more responses, feel free to either dm me or start a new thread.


You still can actually... that’s quite literally why they made their own virtualization software... it emulates an x86-64 environment beautifully with minimal performance impacts. 

And we still don’t know for sure whether dual booting windows (or any x86-64 OS) on the ARM macs is possible or not... apple did not (yet) provide information regarding that. For all we know, they might use emulation there too!

And Windows on ARM is a thing... that’s how the ARM-based Surface runs windows!
By definition every EMULATION is slower than native runtime. This is just a rule that cannot be fouled.
You can't install Windows on ARM via BootCamp because Windows doesn't sell any license for Windows on ARM, only OEMs can get them.
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